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parmadale murders another child - Faith Finley died after being restrained in banned positionSubmitted by Quest-News-Serv... on Sun, 01/11/2009 - 00:09.
parmadale murders another child - Faith Finley died after being restrained in banned position Faith Finley died after being restrained in controversial position Posted by Rachel Dissell/Plain Dealer Reporter. January 10, 2009 07:00AM Real Time News  Courtesty of the familyFatih Finley, 17, suffocated after being restrained in a face-down position that has been banned by one state agency.A 17-year-old girl who suffocated while being restrained at a center for troubled children was held in a potentially deadly face-down position that was recently banned by at least one state agency. The restraint has been blamed for the deaths of at least 40 children in facilities nationwide since 1993. Cuyahoga County Coroner Frank Miller said Faith Finley had been held in what is known as the prone restraint. He ruled her Dec. 13 death a homicide Monday, saying she was suffocating while she was restrained at Parmadale Family Services in Parma and choked on vomit. Parma police are investigating. A movement to ban the dangerous "prone restraint" has grown among agencies that serve children. The Ohio Department of Mental Retardation and Developmental Disabilities banned it in November. The danger of the restraint led to the ban, according to a memo sent to agencies that the department licenses. Copies went to at least a dozen additional state officials. "Research supports the belief that prone restraints are potentially fatal due to the impact this maneuver has on reducing a person's ability to breathe," the memo reads. Unclear is whether Parmadale was aware of the memo. Staff is trained on all the dangers and methods involved in restraints, said Tom Mullen, president of Catholic Charities, which runs Parmadale. Staff is taught to use a face-to-the-ceiling restraint where staff members secure a child to the floor by pinning their arms and legs to the ground and not compressing the torso in any way, he said. If staff did not follow the policy, action would be taken, he said. Two workers involved in the restraint on Faith are on paid leave pending the police investigation. The face-down restraint, which puts pressure on the stomach area, can be especially dangerous if used on a person taking psychotropic drugs. The drugs can cause some to easily vomit while relaxing the gag reflex, making it harder for them to clear their throats. Faith was taking medication in that category. Nationwide, since 1993, at least 64 children died and thousands were injured while being restrained in face-down and other methods. About half of the restraints that caused deaths were unnecessary, a review of restraint deaths by Cornell University Residential Child Care Project found. Cornell's trainers, who have worked with Parmadale, teach both the face-up and facedown techniques as a part of their Therapeutic Crisis Intervention system but warn neither is safe. Facilities choose which methods suit their philosophy. Some choose never to use restraints. "Every single restraint assumes a certain level of risk, including death," said Michael Nunno, the project's principal investigator. "You never want your intervention to be more risky than what the child is doing." According to the coroner's ruling, Faith was restrained after an "outburst of disruptive behavior." Faith had been tossing things around her room and may have approached the staff aggressively, said Parma police and Parmadale officials. That type of behavior alone is not enough to restrain a child, Nunno said. Workers often get into power struggles with kids they supervise, especially if the atmosphere in the facility is chaotic. Staff involved in such struggles should remove themselves from dealing with the children, he said. According to police records and other sources, the situation in Parmadale's Cottage 14, where Faith lived, was particularly tense. In the days leading up to her restraint, several children escaped, one stole a car, a child-care worker was injured by a teen and -- just before Faith died -- another girl in the cottage was beaten so badly, she was taken to the hospital. People can be trained and tested over and over, Mullen said, but in the heat of a situation, it's hard to maintain control of an agitated child who is struggling with staff. "What people need to understand is that these are interactions between humans," he said. Bellefaire JCB in Shaker Heights, which also treats troubled children, uses restraint as a last resort, said Jeffrey Cox, clinical director. "For us, disruptive is not enough," he said. If a child were to punch a staff member and walk away, that would not be a restraint situation because the immediate danger would be over, he said. When restraints are used, the child's vital signs are carefully monitored, and children are not left alone immediately after being restrained, Cox said. Faith was allowed to rest on the floor after she was released from the restraint, and workers later discovered her breathing was shallow. Parmadale staff lacked access to life-saving measures such as an automatic defibrillator to try to restart her heart. The number of restraint-related injuries in Ohio is unclear because no agency collects the data. Information about major incidents, such as deaths or serious injuries, is supposed to be reported to the agency or agencies that license a facility. But that information is not shared. In 2006, the Ohio Association of County Behavioral Health Authorities, an umbrella group that includes county mental health boards, pleaded for the creation of a statewide system to report child injuries in facilities. The report pointed out that thousands of restraint-related injuries each year, including rug burns, black eyes, bloody noses and broken teeth, are not required to be reported. It concluded that fear of liability and the potential of losing facilities, which are already in short supply, were reasons that reforms were not being pushed. "We tinker around the edges, but nobody is biting the bullet and fixing this problem," Cheri Walter, CEO of the group, said at the time. Asked this week if any changes had been made since the 2006 paper was printed, Walter said, "Frankly, nothing has changed." But now, officials are facing the death of a 17-year-old. "It's unfortunately taken kids' deaths to prompt these kinds of changes," Nunno said. Print This Page
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Posted by dbra on 01/10/09 at 8:30AM
wOw. Sounds like Parmadale is in need of some SERIOUS intervention. Posted by Irish35 on 01/10/09 at 8:52AM
What kind of people does Parmadale have working there ? Posted by warciple on 01/10/09 at 9:10AM
If she was face down, how'd she choke on vomit? This girl attacked the staff. She forced them to restrain her any way they could. This is sad, but I find it hard to believe they wanted to hurt her. Posted by MrsKaseyWedg on 01/10/09 at 9:19AM
I applied at Parmadale and was offered a job years ago... I turned it down after walking through some of the cottages.. these kids are more than "troubled" Posted by mikewestside on 01/10/09 at 9:20AM
Yeah if shes face down, she wouldnt have choked on her own vomit. Now if she was on her back it would make sense. There's been something fishy about this story all along, and I bet we're just scraping the surface. Posted by kevinwinslow on 01/10/09 at 9:29AM
Most of the comments so far put the blame on Parmadale's staff. Not that I condone violence against kids or out of date restraint technique, but do you realize the type of kids that are in that place? How ignorant, mentioning hiring practices. I suggest the critical posters wake up and realize that these aren't slightly angry kids in need of a little ritolin or TLC. A lot of these teens are physically aggressive on a regular basis. These kids don't react like CPR props. My guess is that this poor kid put both herself and others in immediate danger to warrant such drastic restraint. Posted by Bedford2 on 01/10/09 at 9:33AM
This is a shame that this child had to die. " The number of restraint-related injuries in Ohio is unclear because no agency collects the data. " This needs to change. Posted by PoorRichard2 on 01/10/09 at 9:45AM
Something stinks. Poor supervision and training on the face of it. Events leading up to it does not sound the staff is in control or trained properly. Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 9:58AM
"People can be trained and tested over and over, Mullen said, but in the heat of a situation, it's hard to maintain control of an agitated child who is struggling with staff. What people need to understand is that these are interactions between humans," he said. And he is correct... these "clients" are not 5 year olds, many of these are violent and angry individuals with size and strength. Imagine it being a jail with the worst of the worst. Yes, they need meds and counseling, but when all fails, other than rubber room where one can still hurt themselves, there still has to be a level of discipline that can safely and lawfully be administered to ensure order. Staff does not deserve to be continually assaulted and needs to retain the right to restrain to protect themselves and the other kids living there. I also question the fact of if one is laying on their tummy and puke, the airway should clear, versus laying on the back, where one would choke on their own stuff. Did I miss something? Posted by biancaa on 01/10/09 at 10:01AM
A child died and charges should be filed. Last year my Autistic son was put in a restraint that caused many bruises including knee or foot mark in the middle of the back and he injured enough that he ended up in the emergency room and later transfered to another residental facility. The staff in my son's case tried to cover for each other. The truth will alway come out. The problem in my son's case that night was the staff then had a mob mentality and forgot to follow correct proceedures. The staff in all facilities should have proper training and supervisors should be present (and employed by a separate enity to ensure honesty). Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 10:06AM
nothing to say now Nonsense? Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 10:08AM
The child vomited when she was left alone after the restraint was done. At that time she was on her back and alone for 20 min. Posted by tombrad on 01/10/09 at 10:20AM
Kevinwinslow Very good post, what is especially alarming is the violent tendencies of young women in the last decade. The female cottages at Parmadale are mainly staffed by female employees which i belive gives the agitated teen the advantage over the adult in that situation. I lived at Parmadale in 1980 and went back to work there for a short time as a staff member ten years later. When i was a kid there it really did "straighten" me out a bit and gave me some self-esteem. Us kids were not angels there we got into fights, smoked dope did things we were not supposed to do but we had staff members there at the time that were not afriad to put you in line, alot of thee guys were former BW and John Carroll football players so lets just say they were more than formible. But there was always a staff that you knew you could "mess" with and try to get in their heads and when that paticular staff would be in charge all hell would break loose that day. When I went back to work there as a staff member there was only a generation seperating from the kids that were there at the time so not much was getting by me, i still knew all the hiding spots and basically had a good understanding of the kids that were there. We had to restrain kids and when i say kids i was talking about 6'3" 17 yr olds that easily weighed 180-220 pounds so it was no easy task and that was the worst part of the job, trust me you felt worse than the kid after it was over, your physically drained and emotionally spent at the end of one not only that it feeds the other kids so you might have to do it agian later that day if not the hour. not only that then comes the paper work involved reports going all over. At the time the job paid 14k a year so it was not money or prestidge it was this "I can make a difference" thing and after a few months it was time to go because i now was feeling resentment towards these kids and that is not the mind set you need in that situation its going to end bad if you keep yourself there under that situation. Restrain were NEVER used for punishment it was only used as a last resort to protect other children, staff and property. I saw a kid take a 27 inch TV and throw it at a kid who was sitting in a chair with his back to the whole thing, it was a very violent act the poor kid spent two weeks at Parma Hospital and the other kid who did it was confined to his room for a week. Anyway i feel really terrible for the young woman's family involved and especially her twin sister and also the staff involved in this incident. Posted by cmmnsns1 on 01/10/09 at 10:27AM
It is called positional asphyxia. It is common in the law enforcement/corrections community. Unfortunately, when dealing with a violent offender that is acting out you have to do what you can to restrain them for your safety, the safety of those around you, and the offenders (in that order). Most of these children have more street smarts and fighting experience than those that are tasked with "helping" them. You see, the adults in these scenerios have spent many years in the halls of higher education, and they did not get there by being a violent offender. Those that should be held accountable are the givers of birth. Most of these children were not born with a problem, the problems were created by absent fathers who don't care and mothers trying to find a man and getting high. I am familiar with one violent offender who's mother would tie him up in the basement for a couple of days while she went "out". Think he has problems? In the absense of gross neglagence, they will be reprimanded by the owners to appease the press. Yet, I dare anyone of you arm-chair quarterbacks to spend one 8 hour shift trying to clean up somebody else's mess; a wrecked life that knows nothing but violence. Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 10:37AM
TomBrad and cmmnsns1, I must say that both of you have written the most profound truth that (other than what I write of course lol) has been posted in a long time. Great posts! Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 10:39AM
Irish- Posted by lsmith8623 on 01/10/09 at 10:50AM
She didn't deserve to die!! I don't care how bad she may have been! She didn't deserve it. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 10:52AM
Lets get this streight tombrad Posted by wilmcnam on 01/10/09 at 10:55AM
They should have just let her go so home. She would have attacked on of the members of the 'hood' and she would have been shot or stabbed. Then there wouldn't be a story. Posted by QueenBB on 01/10/09 at 11:02AM
warciple -If you read the artical completely, it stated it relaxes your gag reflex that makes it easy to vomit and hard to clear the passages. So in this event, her passages were full of vomit, causing her to choke and die! Sad she had her life taken by some understaffed and/or over worked workers. If that cottage was so disruptive, they should have been more supervised and her parents should have been notified of the uncontrolled behaviors allowing them the time to move her or take her home if possible. It seems like negligence on the agency's behalf. Posted by rpuck on 01/10/09 at 11:03AM
If the piece of garbage mother makes money out of this tragic situation that is the crime............ Sterilization needs to be discussed as an option for the system to address this welfare state. Posted by HCsays on 01/10/09 at 11:03AM
Help me understand the meaning of some of the words used here. What is a "troubled teen"? What was causing Faith to act as she did? THIS IS IMPORTANT: Was she retarted? Was she insane? Was there some sort of physical, chemcal, or mental imbalance which resulted in Faith being unable to control her actions? If this is true, then it is a shame she died. Did Faith have a criminal past? Was she being confined because of past wrongdoings she intentionally committed? If this is the case, then it isn't as bad an event. (I guess it is sad in such case she died, but it is not as terrible a thing as the conditions precedent cited in the first paragraph. For example, if a terrorist who just beheaded an American soldier is pushed to the floor harshly, I wouldn't feel as bad as if a little old lady who never beheaded anyone were pushed harshly to the ground.) We need to know why she was throwing things previously. Could Faith have conducted herself differently? If so, maybe she would not have had to have been constrained. Yeah, she probabyl shouldn't have died, but let's make sure we are not making a bigger issue than is necessary. Let's eatablish first that Faith's actions were completelty without fault before blaming those who restrained her. After all, if a guy who blows up an army jeep chokes while being waterboarded, is it really the worst thing in the world? Posted by sunburn25 on 01/10/09 at 11:05AM
It is sad that this mother now has lost a child, but why was she there? What did she do to be restrained? I realize it's sad , but this was a troubled girl who had to be held down because of her actions. If she wasn't doing anything wrong this would not have happened.It is a hard place for all involved. She at 17 yrs. of age should know how to act and control herself. Now her mom should get lots of money and these people that work there will forever have this on their record. Bad situation all around. Posted by faerierealm on 01/10/09 at 11:05AM
Quote: Agressiveness...that alone is NOT ENOUGH to restrain a child? Well,I am sorry, but if I was a worker, and a child approached me AGRESSIVELY you better believe I am going to put my safety first, and restrain, especially if I am not able to de9escalate that child...based on that picture that girl LOOKS like she could hold her own, and probably gave the staff a run for their money.... Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 11:10AM
annbolin, I read bewteen the lines, and noted that TomBrad was a guy that apparently made something of himself. Not everyone that is placed at Parmadale or Bellefaire is an out of control druggie, offspring of a druggie, a future mental patient, or a criminal. Many are in fact placed there because of having been in a broken home, and the family could just not cope. There are many many reasons that a child is placed, so don't draw conslusions. Many former "clients" go on to make something of themselves, and are very successful in their adult life, much of the time over what they learned in their "life experience" while being a resident of a treatment facility. I will concur that it is a tragedy that one lost her life there, and as we all know, the family will now begin their campaign of what a good girl she was, just a bit mis-understood, and how caring, but the bottom line is that she was out of control, had to be restrained, and it was her own actions that caused her to be in the situation. Should have staff better monitored her, and I say yes, by all means, and had she been properly monitored, on a 1:1 we would not be writing about this today, so yes, there was negligence on part of staff, but folks, keep an open mind to what the staff deals with daily, hourly, and maybe you can better understand the whole process. Posted by glittrnglitz on 01/10/09 at 11:12AM
Alot of post wants to talk about the behavior of the child we know these kids are very aggfressive and mentally unstable, and along with any other issue. My sister was one of these kids she would fight you in a heart beat and i say do whatever it takes to restrain her, but the person needs to be conscious of what action they are doing if the child laid there and for some reason there is not mre screaming and kicking going on something would tell me to check on her see if she is alright. Not leave her for 20 minutes. Really, if she known for fighting and running off at the month and for a short period of time she is quiet then don't that say something is wrong. The should have had someone sitting there monitoring her and talking to her for the 20 mintues no they left her and yes for that its homicide because how do we know that they didnt no she was already having some medical issue and they left her so they wouldn't get in trouble. These kids are put there for problems and I don't care how violent the girl was she should not of had died that way. Someone didn't do there job. And I know what goes on in these homes. The staff dont always follow guidelines like they should. That girl was put in that position and someone held her down too long and left her knowing they did something wrong, returned and she was on unconscious and for that they deserve jail time and a swift kick in the a&& Posted by nra4life on 01/10/09 at 11:12AM
Why was she their in the first place is my question? Most likely because her parents were pathetic role models. Quit having kids if you cannot manage your own lives effectively... Posted by suburbaner on 01/10/09 at 11:16AM
annbolin: Please learn how to use a comma. Secondly, it would be wonderful if all the highly qualified child psychologists and behavior therapists were breaking down Parmadale's doors looking for jobs. However, there is very little money available to pay Parmadale's workers. The Cleveland Diocese is currently shutting down parishes and consolidating others to save cash. When they can offer very little vis a vis compensation and benefits to their staff, their hiring pool becomes less ideal. One may enjoy the satisfaction of helping others, but it sounds like the stress of the work takes its toll rather quickly. Those who are able probably find another line of work with less stress and better pay. I imagine tombrad truly did want to give back to Parmadale, and I thank him for it. His ability to take and hold gainful employment was likely due in some part to Parmadale's effective programs. Your judgment of tombrad is prejudicial and reflects poorly on your character. Posted by biancaa on 01/10/09 at 11:23AM
Plz.... Do you have any idea how much counties and state contribute to the upkeep of places like Parmadale? These places are money makers. They bill per child per day. Money Money Money. Posted by QueenBB on 01/10/09 at 11:26AM
annbolin -that comment was peacefully written. I can roll with that comment.... Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 11:32AM
Biancaa... it is about money and yes there is subsidies, but the facilities only have so much to work with, and most staff are the "rookies" in the mental health field, and it becomes just a place to hang their hats while furthering their educations, to go on to higher paying and SAFER environments. The others, aids or whatever they are called there have one tough job... and I would bet that they are paid no more than if they worked in a safe environment of a McDonalds... so they do it because they care, even knowing they are physically at risk daily! They are however caring, and take pride in knowing that if they can make a positive difference in teh lives of 1 out of 10, they've accomoplished something. Sadly, many of the clients don't care about themselves, their future, their family, and live day to day, and like many in our schools, live to disrupt, and being untreatable or unchangable, they will become the future victims of their own environments. Posted by spoonful on 01/10/09 at 11:35AM
I just want to say I give credit to the mother. She said and this is an exact quote " I do not blame Parmadale for Faiths death" I would like them to review there procedures. Faith was in this facility through no fault of her own. She should not have had to suffer for the sins of her mother". On that note, Faith broker her leg 2 months earlier trying to jump out a window to go to a party. She was throwing things around. She was very troubled. This girl died 20 minutes after the restraint process. She was found in the hallway. She DID NOT die during the restraining process. If parmadale is responsible for her death, then they should be criminally charged. If any money is to come out of it, I say give it to the twin, who, by the way, is still in Children's Berea Home. Apparently the mother is still not fit to regain custody of this girl. Posted by kupski2 on 01/10/09 at 11:41AM
Horse crap to all this first off she is the one that was aggressive to the staff ! she comes at me biting and trying to possibly infect me with some socially communicable disease that she may or may not be aware of, you bet your sweet ahss I will do EVERYTHING in my power to preserve my life first. when will you people learn there is a consequence for your actions ? you don't go and sue someone because they responded to an action against them to try to think rationally while someone is possibly attempting to take your life ! NEXT CASE please. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 11:42AM
suberbaner Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 11:47AM
Kupski... you are 100% correct, with the exception that when you take one's physical freedom and mobility by means of restraint, where one's natural body functions will not work as they should, there should have been 1:1 monitoring, be it personal or via video, to ensure nothing went wrong... which in this case it did. Tough call... a life was lost because of negligence, but the fact leading up to what caused the initial reason for the restraint episode will and shall have merit on any ultimate outcome, be it monitarilly or criminally. Posted by 444992 on 01/10/09 at 11:52AM
Most of these kids have been through horrible abuse and neglect in their lives. They have been physically, sexually, and emotionally abused. They've often been homeless, or have lived in many different homes/gone to dozens of schools in their lives. They are on medications, have mental health issues. Parmadale gets paid only enough per day to cover basic expenses and pay their staff a starting wage of under $10 an hour. All of you who think that it's all about the $ should try working there one day. Faith shouldn't have died. Staff may be at fault, but that doesn't mean that they are all idiots who are in it for the money. Posted by faerierealm on 01/10/09 at 11:53AM
The per diem for a child per day in a residential facility is anywhere from $210.00 and up.... I think someone on a post wanted to know... Posted by SoCon on 01/10/09 at 11:54AM
"For us, disruptive is not enough," he said. If a child were to punch a staff member and walk away, that would not be a restraint situation because the immediate danger would be over, he said. That statement is beyond belief. That action constitutes assault, and the "child" will more than likely go on to harm someone else, possibly with tragic results. This young woman was obviously out of control, and it is my belief that the actions taken at the time that were deemed necessary to contain her potentially harmful outbursts of rage were justified. Period. Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 12:00PM
annbolin... very profound post! And, as they said on the TV show Dragnet, the names have been changed to protect the innocent, which can be likened to Tom working at Parmadale... he could work anywhere, the walls would be different but the types of clients are still the same, thus if he worked at Parmadale, Bellefaire, Berea, wherever, the job is still the same, Tom just had the advantage of knowing a whole lot more about the inner workings, and he had every right to work there, and good for him, to want to help others as he was helped years before, to give back, as they say. I would also say, in defense of Tom, that when he speaks to a client, and says he was a product of there, do you not think for one moment that he grabs the attention of some (not everyone), who look and think to themselves... "hey, I can do that... I can be like him"! Posted by HCsays on 01/10/09 at 12:11PM
Remember Rodney King and the L.A. riots. Do the actions of the policemen change, in your opinion when you are reminded (as the media frequently left out of their reporting) Rodney was strung out high as a kite on PCP when he was apprehended? Prove to me Faith was an angel with no criminal past who never hurt anyone else and I will feel remorse. Otherwise, what's the big deal? If she wouldn't have thought twice about harming others, is this such a big fuss? Posted by kupski2 on 01/10/09 at 12:16PM
carguy I agree but again if you put yourself in the scenario, its hard to tell what you or I might do to preserve ones life.. and CERTAINLY you can train people till your balls are blue but when it comes down it comes down and you do the best you can. I DO NOT believe that staff wanted to have that child pass away but on the other side of the argument they probably didn't want to spend an entire day trying to coach that kid to chill out either. My dad and mother raised me to not be like that at home and its a damn shame that kids parents in these situations have such disrespectful children that push it even unto death THEN its the other persons fault. There was an issue in Pinellas county Florida in the schools where a child was restrained and ole momma was making issue about it, got on tv actually blew it up for her BRAT ASS kid that was restrained....eventually on larry king. Thank God through the tides of time , she packed her ashss up and moved out of the district where she could push her b.s. onto another school district.... .JUST SHAMEFUL. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 12:25PM
Carguy Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 12:25PM
HCsays, I guess the black guy that was shot while UNARMED AND HANDCUFFED LAYING DOWN ON HIS STOMACH was posing a threat also. The Toronto Star has a video of the actual shooting and the link is: Whenever a black person is involved, you people will find all kinds of excuses for police or administrative failures. Yes we have a new president, but the same $%^% is going on. A young girl died suffocating on her own vommit. Hopefully charges will be brought up on the staff. Posted by kupski2 on 01/10/09 at 12:29PM
dood first off. THIS wasn't someone getting shot, they were being restrained until they died.....RESISTING arrest its called in some places where there is still some types of accountability. so don't turn this into a shooting, this was a 17 year old young adult who apparently had an attitude that cost her life.... Sad how you turn this into a "THING" thats the easy way out of accountability I guess. Posted by spoonful on 01/10/09 at 12:31PM
annbolin- Conflict of Interest. Do you know how many people are counselors in drug and alcohol treatment centers that were druggies or alcoholics. This is not a conflict of interest. Alot of those people go on to become counselors because of their experiences. I agree, the guy was a role model. See, just because you are here does not mean you have to end up a statistic. Apparently Parmadale did something to you directly that you are so mad.
Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 12:32PM
Here is a better video of the shooting: http://www.thestar.com/article/563754 I believe on Thursday Cleveland.com had THREE stories of police corruption cases Posted by DaveLogan72 on 01/10/09 at 12:39PM
Posted by lsmith8623 on 01/10/09 at 10:50AM She didn't deserve to die!! I don't care how bad she may have been! She didn't deserve it. ========================================================= I agree...but the flip side of this is it may have saved another life or lives...once her "therapy" was completed she would have been released and killed someone out in the streets or at home. Posted by lakewood216 on 01/10/09 at 12:43PM
Kupski2, you think these kids are being "disrespectful?" Many of them have **severe** mental and emotional problems. We're not talking about your everyday bratty/thuggish kids here. HCsays, George W Bush was arrested, too. Should we just execute anybody who has ever committed a criminal act? Should that be extended to minors? How young are you willing to go? Should we have executed Scooter Libby? GOP Senator (and bible-thumper) Larry Craig committed (probably) a criminal act? Should we kill him, too? Let us know, please. The fact that you support the killing of this girl is pretty eye-opening. Then again, the far-right crowd is soaked and bathed in their love of violence and the spilling of blood. Would you say the same thing (especially in light of you mentioning Rodney King) if Faith were white? I frankly doubt it. How do you know what Faith did and did not do that led her to be placed in that facility? She could have had a propensity for getting into fights, unfortunately. But you make something like that be the equivalent of being a violent street thug...unless you believe that blacks in general are thugs? Let us know how you feel. Sounds like you want to have a criminal justice system that makes Iran look like the Netherlands. And your crowd still has the guts to bash Muslims wholesale...lol. There would be a lot of dead Republican politicians if we applied what you supported against Faith against GOP politicians who have broken the law. There would be a LOT of dead frat/lunkhead/outer-suburban white conservatives....since more than a few have engaged in violent fights..especially in bars. Should they be free targets for police or others? The next time some frat-guy/lunkhead attacks my friends, should I have the right to smother him or take a 2 by 4 and bash his head in? SoCon, this is not a law enforcement facility. I don't see the big deal in letting someone cool off if they can be isolated and otherwise removed from being able to harm others. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 12:46PM
that's kind of funny spoonful Posted by lakewood216 on 01/10/09 at 12:48PM
DaveLogan72, should your standard apply to the Republcian politicians who have been arrested? Former L.A. GOP Mayor Richard Riordan was busted decades ago TWICE for drunk driving and was even citied for "resisting arrest." Should the cops have shot/beat him to death? Or do affluent white moderate/conservative folk get a free pass? Posted by lakewood216 on 01/10/09 at 12:50PM
Annbolin, using the standards of the racists posting here today, the counselors should smother themselves to death..as a few of them have past criminal histories, too. Something tells me they'd only want the black counselors to do this, though. Pretty sad. Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 12:50PM
kupski, I understand that this is not relating to someone getting shot, but it is a similar situation. My finance is a Pychiatrist and when reading this story said that it is highly likely negligent homocide charges will be filed. She said there are procedures when restraining a disorderly resident. One of the procedures is to not allow the resident to remain on their stomach too long to avoid the risk of suffocation. WELL THEY DROPPED THE BALL ON THAT ONE. If you view the video, the shooting may not have been out of malice, but the deceased gentleman DID NOT pose a threat to the officer. Still there are people saying cops don't shoot people unless it is provoked. Stupidity, Carelessness, or dare I say bigotry could have played a role in both tragedies. By the way, I am not trying to avoid accountability. I'm just noting what a professional in the field of mental health observed immediately reading the article. Posted by lakewood216 on 01/10/09 at 12:52PM
Sogladileft, nice to see a reasoned, intellectual post. There are too many anti-intellectual Palinista and racist/fascist types out today. Posted by faerierealm on 01/10/09 at 12:56PM
Annbolin Please explain how you know this to be true...I am interested... are you saying that CCDCFS social workers are like their clients- they abuse and neglect their children, are unable to meet basic needs, struggle with stable housing, have severe mental health/emotional issues that interefere with their capacity to effectively parent their children? Can you clarify this? "Still, there is an overwhelming amount of staff that do slip through and become more of a deternce for the clients than a help. Lets be truthfull here." Overwhelming amount? Where do you have the statistics that state there are an "overwhelming amount'. Is this your personal experience, with CCDCFS as a client, or where you employed there? In order to make such a broad statement, you really must have the proof to back this statement up." Did you know that CCDCFS has drastically reduced the amount of children who have come into custody....in the first half of the year 2000 approx. 2300 children came into agency custody....for the first half of 2007 900 children came into agency custody....that seems to be a pretty significant reduction in children who come into custody...and I dont' dispute that there are staff members who don't service families appropriately, but any job has those rogue employees who shouldn't be working there and eventually get weeded out...but an "overwhelming amount"? I think thats a little rash.....and the fact that a PCSA has an issue with hiring requirements, I don't think that is true, however I think the bigger issue is the employee turnover rate, I.E the "revolving door" of child welfare workers...the high caseloads overwhelm staff thus leave, and due to the fact that there is not enough money in the county budget to hire a new worker every time one leaves...I think you understand where I am going with this.... and lets be honest, do we actually believe children are removed for "no reason", and that workers actually "enjoy" removing children from their parents...and given the fact that there are less removals, which means interventions are put into place to manage the situations in the home..be it abuse or neglect....and saving taxpayers money, because I believe it costs around$2000-$3000 to remove a child from their home...I'm sure nobody disputes the fact that Faith shouldn't have remained in her home, due to her mother's instability/drug addiction....we dont' know all the details, but in order for a child (ren) to be removed there are SERIOUS safety concerns that warrants a correction to ensure children are protected... sources: cfs.cuyahogacounty.us Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 1:01PM
more over spoonful Posted by SoCon on 01/10/09 at 1:03PM
"There are too many anti-intellectual Palinista and racist/fascist bleeding-heart, agenda-driven leftist liberal types out today." There, fixed that for ya lakewoodlefty. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 1:05PM
yes faiererealm Posted by Sunflowers98 on 01/10/09 at 1:07PM
I hear the asparagus there sucks. Kind of like potatoes. Posted by alfie77 on 01/10/09 at 1:07PM
What a tragedy, so unnecessary. It sounds as though the entire system needs to be revamped from top to bottom and staffed with people who are better educated in human behavior and mental illness and use strategies based on scientific evidence. Spending a little more money to recruit more qualifed staff would be worth it. The community should also reconsider using "faith based" organizations as recipients of tax dollars for these programs. Their techniques obviously aren't working. Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 1:08PM
You're welcome lakewood. I just find it funny that whenever the victim is black, these bloggers find a way to rationalize the vicitmizer's actions. Then have the nerve to suggest blacks lack accountability. The police officer in East Cleveland is black and I maintained that she should be prosecuted to the full extend of the law especially because of her position. Race has nothing to do with black people seeking justice. If the girl was white, I would argue the same way and use he same example from Oakland. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 1:12PM
hey faery Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 1:16PM
socon, You should know what words mean before you copy and paste other bloggers post and words from the Fox website. What adgenda are we pushing today... ...justice, accountability, proper management. I'm sorry liberals care for thing to be done right the first time unlike Iraq or Afganistan. Posted by greenmeat on 01/10/09 at 1:19PM
From the article: In the days leading up to her restraint, several children escaped, one stole a car, a child-care worker was injured by a teen and -- just before Faith died -- another girl in the cottage was beaten so badly, she was taken to the hospital. Sounds like they would have been better off in jail-less of a threat to themselves and others. Where is the line drawn between innocent victim of her upbringing/chemical imbalance and dangerous savage? Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 1:24PM
faerierealm Posted by carguy1 on 01/10/09 at 1:26PM
An interesting read from today's Columbus Dispatch is about the young guy that killed a lady, kidnapped her 4 year old and left him at a rest area last week Stated he never held a gun before... yeh right. The story is about how he has a 600 page juvenile file. What facilities was he in, one has to wonder? Posted by SoCon on 01/10/09 at 1:27PM
Liberals care for things to be done right, as long as it fits their world view, and is government-mandated and sanctioned. You people suffer from a persecution complex, exacerbated by arrested development syndrome. Life isn't always rosy-peachy-keen, so get a clue, and get used to it. Stop trying to tell the rest of us how we're supposed to live, and spare us the moral relativism. Please. Posted by nonsense on 01/10/09 at 1:40PM
I agree with carguy's comments: The article clearly states: What more can you say about using restraints? There seems to be some over expectations of medical and psychological treatment. It often takes years to rehabilitate someone with psychological, mental, or drug problems? It may take several months to just get the drugs adjusted correctly. There is not an instant fix. When you see a video of an actual take down by a police officer everyday on TV, do they put them face down or face up? Residential centers do not use handcuffs or guns. Try working with someone trying to kick, punch, or bite you? After a violent emotional encounter, does anyone really think the blood pressure immediately goes down, rational thinking takes place and the worker will sit and chat? The autonomic nervous system triggers the "fight or flight" reflex and it just doesn't turn off. Posters that have expressed the mentality that they can just talk everything out and things will be wonderful, have indicated to me that they have not certainly have not held a responsible position in a treatment facility for a meaningful amount of time, nor do they have much of a medical background. Posted by mynewsbiz247 on 01/10/09 at 1:57PM
I am bothered by the whole scenario. This is a facility for troubled and often violent youth offenders. Obviously they have to have well trained staff to deal with these offenders. Her death is the biggest issue and if this particular method of restraint has been banned in other facilities, you can't tell me this facility was not aware of this. But, they continue to use it anyway (???) Why (???). This girl may not have died as a result of this restraint, but did die at a later time chocking on her own vomit - Why (???). This whole story makes no sense, but what is clear is Parmadale needs to be fully investigated. This is a terrible tragedy. I don't know what to say about the mother of these girls being in facilities like this, but have to wonder if her behavior led to any of this. Children follow by example. Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 1:57PM
socon, You're foaming at the mouth again and talking "giberish". I am not even a liberal, but the more I hear conservatives talk, the more I lean left. No one said everything is "peachy-keen" if it was than our government would quit wasting time and effort on saving a dying market--the auto industry. But like our soon to be former president, I see you suffer from ADHD and can't concentrate on the subject at hand. This article was about another mishap in the medical/psychiatric field. I used the example from the police shooting to emphasize the fact that our public servants keep letting the public down, from Blagojevich, to the corrupt East Cleveland, to the employees of this facility. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 2:00PM
"What more can you say about using restraints?" stop using them. "After a violent emotional encounter, does anyone really think the blood pressure immediately goes down, rational thinking takes place and the worker will sit and chat? The autonomic nervous system triggers the "fight or flight" reflex and it just doesn't turn off." so leave them alone? no sence nonsence "Posters that have expressed the mentality that they can just talk everything out and things will be wonderful, have indicated to me that they have not certainly have not held a responsible position in a treatment facility for a meaningful amount of time, nor do they have much of a medical background." I think that indicates your level of employment not anyone elses. would you feel better if I named other agencies and tshed thier baggage too? Come on guys. this is too simple. The truth hurts I guess. Nothing I have written is from spite just experience. If you always choose the negative of a situation you loose your ability to see the positive. Just because facts are being relayed here doesn't make the intention of telling them harmful. A girl died. Is that life important enough for you guys to open up to some of the points here. Or is protecting your ego or whatever it is you think you protect when you oppose others views more important. Everyone lives through thier own perceptions. It's about sharing facts while detaching yourself. Not being the right one. You have made some good points but I still do not see your connection with the reality some of mine. That does not make for a successful conclusion and is one of the persistant dynamic 's that infests our treatment centers. Posted by DaveLogan72 on 01/10/09 at 2:06PM
Posted by lakewood216 on 01/10/09 at 12:48PM DaveLogan72, should your standard apply to the Republcian politicians who have been arrested? Former L.A. GOP Mayor Richard Riordan was busted decades ago TWICE for drunk driving and was even citied for "resisting arrest." Should the cops have shot/beat him to death? Or do affluent white moderate/conservative folk get a free pass? ========================================================= First off it's a stretch to consider my statement my "standard". Secondly... Posted by ToobadBro on 01/10/09 at 2:08PM
This is a terible tradgedy for the familiy and the staff at Parmadale. One thing some people fail to realize is that this is a last resort, last stop, last chance for these kids. "Troubled" doesn't do the description of the problems that these kids have justice. Thank G_d that there are agencies like Catholic Charities willing to become involved where others turn there backs on the least of our society. Many of these kids would be on the streets being victomized, in jail or dead. These kids in this facility are there because there is no where else to go. They have emotional and mental disabilities that make them a danger to themselves and thier families. The greatest mother in the world wouldn't keep a 200 lb teenage in thier home who was so violent that they can not be kept around sibilings. These are kids who have a history of violence toward others. There is no "low-risk" cottage a Parmadale all the children are troubled. There is often no room at the Inn. Unfortunatly there is a shortage of these types of facilities. The issue here is alternatives to restraints and training. It was a tradgic accident. Many children have been helped and saved from a different type of tragic ending during a very difficult time in thier lives. Posted by kevinwinslow on 01/10/09 at 2:12PM
In response to the many posts by annbolin and tombrad. Annbolin, great job at attacking someone who tried to give back. Did you ever consider that tombrad is perhaps more qualified than anyone else to work in such an environment? This kid's death was a tradgedy. If she was placed at Parmadale, chances are her life was also a tradgedy. I'm not going to defend Parmadale but rather those who have chosen to work on the frontlines while others criticize. Critics use legal jargon and speak of procedure as if every situation can be solved with a process. They favor coddling troubled kids yet I bet they've no idea the severity of these children's tendencies. Posted by sogladileft on 01/10/09 at 2:13PM
nonsense, I do understand that restraint is required, yet he fact that the girl suffocated in her vommit shows that she was left in a face down position for quite awhile. I believe an investigation will reveal that the young lady was incorrectly restrained. Posted by ivan1963 on 01/10/09 at 2:13PM
Why is this surprising? She acted like an animal, so she was treated like an animal. This was done because of her own actions, she brought this on herself. This case should be used as an example to all the other kids living there and going to the Cleveland Public Schools.... If you act respecable, you will be treated with respect; when you act like a mutant, you will be treated like a mutant. Posted by FVBIII on 01/10/09 at 2:14PM
She was certainly old enough to know right from and how to behave, no sympathy here. Frederick VanBuren III Posted by nonsense on 01/10/09 at 2:30PM
Maybe it would be helpful to look at care from a more reasonable perspective of how many lives have treatment facilities saved versus how many they have hurt. Just by keeping some of these behaviorally difficult youths off the street, you have to assume Parmadale has kept hundreds of people from dying or maiming or killing others. It is an endorsement of the facility that successfully treated individuals choose to try to give back what was given to him. Posted by nonsense on 01/10/09 at 2:48PM
sogladileft Why did she vomit? How long was she held down? Was she held down by one person or two people? Did one person hold her down and then call another person? Did she vomit was being restrained or after the workers left? Did the vomit enter one or both of her lungs or did it stay in the trachea from the esophagus? These questions all have a bearing on suffocation. Posted by sickofmorons on 01/10/09 at 2:58PM
"Not that I condone violence against kids or out of date restraint technique, but do you realize the type of kids that are in that place?" No, most of these morons posting on here trashing Parmadale don't. But their ignorance on many subjects never stopped these morons from posting previously. They just love to show their ignorance on here. Posted by sickofmorons on 01/10/09 at 3:00PM
Biancaa said: "A child died and charges should be filed." Did you read the article? Just because a child died does NOT mean charges should be filed. Hence an investigation by Parma Police after the coroner's report. You're obviously not very bright at all. Posted by sickofmorons on 01/10/09 at 3:01PM
In addition "Biancaa", these are not autistic children at Parmadale. If you're going to compare apples to apples, then do so. Your situation is not even remotely close. And spare me your excuses, too (ditto for others who might defend "Biancaa") Posted by sickofmorons on 01/10/09 at 3:04PM
"She didn't deserve to die!! I don't care how bad she may have been! She didn't deserve it. " Really?! I don't remember reading ANYWHERE before you posted that someone said -- or even eluded to -- that she deserved what she got. You're an idiot. Posted by sickofmorons on 01/10/09 at 3:08PM
Lakewood216 said: "There are too many anti-intellectual Palinista and racist/fascist types out today. " OH please stop, drama queen. Nobody is impressed with you. You haven't a clue WTF you're talking about. Make yourself useful and get off the computer and shovel some snow. Posted by faerierealm on 01/10/09 at 3:10PM
Ulitmately Faith's life and death may be the catalyst for changing what appears to be documented, a rather faulty dangerous technique for physically restraining patients/inmates/agressive individuals in treatment centers. I am for it, granted as long as it will be facilitated in such a way that ensures the safety of everyone invovled: the agressive client, staff members, and innocent patients. Within the coming weeks/months I'm sure more information will be released, and I'm sure this is just the beginning of a long, drawn out legal action that will indefinitely waste more taxpayer money. My issue is that we live in such a REactive society,rather than PROactive, and it takes something like this for everyone to jump on the bandwagon and demand "change" yet nobody will step up and do anything about it. I'm sick of all the whiners who complain about the system, the corruption, the adminsitration but won't do a thing. I encourage all who are "demanding change" in this third act to lobby your congressman/congresswoman , senator, local municipality etc.. up to the top of the chain, because we're all just wasting our time here blogging on some stupid newspaper website that only reports on the bad,and never praises the good that has been accomplished to bring forth equality, social justice and improvement towards mankind... Posted by sickofmorons on 01/10/09 at 3:12PM
sogladileft said: "...justice, accountability, proper management." And NONE OF US are even remotely qualified to question their management. Were you there? Do you know exactly that Parmadale is not properly managed? No, you don't. And this one incident hardly indicates something foul is going on up there. Plus, last I checked, there was still an investigation going on with Parma Police to see if criminal charges should be filed. And the people who were restraining this girl have been suspended pending the investigation. So, there is some accountability going on at this point in the investigation. So, I would say that management is/has acted properly. Justice and accountability will come if after the investigation is completed, warrants such. Posted by proof1 on 01/10/09 at 3:20PM
Have any of you ever been introduced to the little computer function called.... SPELL CHECK? I can barely get through some of these posts because the spelling blows... I am no genius, but you can make your point much more poignant if you can spell basic words correctly... right now you look like idiots..... Posted by stlydanfan on 01/10/09 at 3:59PM
FVBIII You nailed it. No sympathy here either. Troubled kids means trouble... Posted by DaveLogan72 on 01/10/09 at 3:59PM
Thank you Proof...you should read the McFaul thread...and they are County employees! I've always said the decline of the Internet would be brought about by the sub-$400.00 computer. Posted by teachmyeyes on 01/10/09 at 4:11PM
Annbolin advocates complete cessation of restraint use. ("Stop using them.") This is clearly ignorant thinking. As Arthur Conan Doyle wrote, "One true inference invariably suggests others." We can truthfully infer that annbolin has not thought much about proper procedure when a child threatens staff with a firearm. (Certainly the child should be restrained!) This blatantly erroneous thinking suggests she is entirely capable of flawed thinking on a myriad of other topics. Posted by spoonful on 01/10/09 at 4:21PM
Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 12:46PM that's kind of funny spoonful What makes me angry is that you saw and knew what was happening and apparently did nothing about it, but want to trash someone who is at least attempting to help. What exactly is it that you do that you have an edge and work harder at doing now? These facilities get kids whose parents have failed them. Most of the blame is on the mother for her lack of parenting these girls to begin with. Had it not been for her issues, these girl's would have been home which is where kids belong. In a home with parents who care about their child's well being. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 4:43PM
spoonful Posted by nonsense on 01/10/09 at 5:30PM
annbolin, Posted by spoonful on 01/10/09 at 5:36PM
annbolin- Did you go to management at Parmadale and tell them. Did you call the county and report them. What exactly did YOU DO to prevent this from happening? Sounds like you should be held accountable too!! Posted by teachmyeyes on 01/10/09 at 6:47PM
Annbolin posted- "As for Teachmeeyes. you obviuosley do not know about Parmadale and it's pretty judgemental(ignorant) of you to assume and generalize about emotionally disturbed people." You responded to a ghost because certainly your response has nothing to do with my post. I wrote nothing (or even remotely implied) about Parmadale specifically and furthermore made only one "assumption or generalization" about emotionally disturbed people- they should be restrained when threatening staff with a firearm. That is a simple precept of a humane society rather than an unfounded assumption. It should go without saying (but to annbolin and Nicolas Dobbs it doesn't!) that they should also be restrained when assaulting anyone with chairs, lamps, baseball bats, dishes, musical instruments, etc. Posted by theo669 on 01/10/09 at 6:57PM
As I said in the previous thread, and as is even ore clear from this article: Parmadale Family Services is a poorly run, poorly staffed, poorly equipped facility. They should be sued, criminally prescuted, and shut down. The staff at Parmadale Family Services who killed Faith should be indicted and tried for this homicide. If some facilities that house childen from troubled backrounds and/or suffering from mental disorders can be run properly, they all can. Those that are not run properly, such as Parmadale Family Services, fail in their mission and need to be closed. They did not even have proper equipment to deal with medical emergencies! But this did not stop them from using this brutal and often fatal method of restraint and then allowing Faith to die. The article makes it sound like a lot of wild stuff was going on at Parmadale around the time the staff committed this homicide. While no doubt it is difficult to run a facility housing troubled teens including teens with mental disorders, it sounds to me like things were out of control at this facilty in general. It also sounds like they treated Faith extra brutally because they were mad about incidents going on at the poorly run facility in general. Were they punishing Faith for their own incompetence? Faith was allowed to rest on the floor after she was released from the restraint, and workers later discovered her breathing was shallow. Parmadale staff lacked access to life-saving measures such as an automatic defibrillator to try to restart her heart. So, the bad people staffing this facility used this highly dangerous and potentially fatal method of restraint even though they had other alternatives. After doing so, they failed to closely monitor her vital signs, and when they realized she was dying they lacked basic equipment to save her. The number of restraint-related injuries in Ohio is unclear because no agency collects the data..... In 2006, the Ohio Association of County Behavioral Health Authorities, an umbrella group that includes county mental health boards, pleaded for the creation of a statewide system to report child injuries in facilities. But they never happened, because places such as Parmadale want what goes on at their facilities brushed under the rug. The report pointed out that thousands of restraint-related injuries each year, including rug burns, black eyes, bloody noses and broken teeth, are not required to be reported. It concluded that fear of liability and the potential of losing facilities, which are already in short supply, were reasons that reforms were not being pushed. So places like PArmadale don't want us to know how much they abuse children. Well, you just killed a teenager, Parmadale. The magnifying glass is on you now. If Parmadale cannot handle having custody of a 17 year old girl without causing her to die from lack of oxygen, they are unfit to have custody of any children. But PArmadale spent their time busily brushing all their child abuse under the rug, when they could've spent that time improving their facility, training better people to staff it, having proper equipment, and using better techniques. They didn't want to run a professional, safe, quality facility. They wanted to get away with child abuse for as long as they could. You killed this girl. Shame on you. Posted by theo669 on 01/10/09 at 7:01PM
Typo on the word "prosecuted" in my above post. I wanna correct that so it is clear that I want them CRIMINALLY PROSECUTED: As I said in the previous thread, and as is even more clear from this article: Parmadale Family Services is a poorly run, poorly staffed, poorly equipped facility. They should be sued, criminally prosecuted, and shut down. The staff at Parmadale Family Services who killed Faith should be indicted and tried for this homicide. Posted by nillapuddin on 01/10/09 at 7:05PM
Back in the 70's i went to school with 4 guys who got sent to Parmadale for riding in a stolen car . 2009 two are dead and two are mia Im not saying what they did was right because it wasnt but they were certainly not the same afterwards. Posted by kmark92s on 01/10/09 at 7:34PM
HC: Like it or not, Faith was still someone's child, friend and sister. Other than what you read, I doubt that you know anything about her. While I respect that everyone has an opinion, your opinion is truly insensitive. She was a 17 year old child, who was placed in Parmadale for intervention.
Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 7:38PM
theo669 Posted by ricktallman1 on 01/10/09 at 7:40PM
warciple Said Posted by nonsense on 01/10/09 at 7:50PM
ricktallman1 states: The article states: Who needs restraints when you have the option to leave? annbolin Posted by nonsense on 01/10/09 at 7:51PM
ricktallman1 states: The article states: Who needs restraints when you have the option to leave? annbolin Posted by katerose1 on 01/10/09 at 7:52PM
I have seen at least one poster here talking about how much money Parmadale makes treating these kids. What an ignorant comment!! In fact, funds for helping troubled kids, outpatient and inpatient, have been steadily cut over the past 30 years, at the same time as costs rose drastically. The state and federal governments have done nothing but cut their already grossly inadequate budgets. Almost all the agencies and non-profits in Cuyahoga County are operating on shoe strings, and are facing even more cuts next year. Training costs money; hiring the best costs money. We have decided as a society to pay the people who care for our cars more than the people who care for our children. While everyone seems to care deeply about an individual child that dies or is harmed, collectively we don't really care about kids at all (or at least, that's what our wallets say). How many of you donated all you could afford this year to United Way or to particular child-serving agencies? Or did it all go to expensive game systems and big-screen TVs? Posted by teachmyeyes on 01/10/09 at 8:18PM
Annbolin told me not to make assumptions (which I did not do in any of my posts), then later went ahead and made an unfounded assumption about me- that I am not part of the solution: "teachmyeyes-are you reading? There are clearly some logical people out there that can see the real issues. Hope you come around and become part of the solution one day." The truth is I have worked very hard and sacrificed to be part of the solution. I moved to Arizona to teach high school English because I could not get a job in Cleveland. Here is an excerpt from an e-mail from Yazmina, one of my former 12th grade students: "and to answer your question about your class......I ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT!!! Mr. E I used to HATE English with a passion but then I had you as a teacher and I learned to like it! I learned a lot of new words and it has really helped me out when reading a newspaper or just talking to people. It would be a shame for you not to teach anymore. I really liked how your class was structured because it seemed like what we were doing was "easy" but it really wasn't it was the way that you taught! You didn't make it so complicated just simple. I don't know if you took me seriously about it being my favorite class but it really was i wasn' joking :) I learned more words and learned how to write better in one year of your class than all my other years of english put together!! I dont know i guess maybe it was just that it seemed that you LOVED teaching and what you were teaching...you know what I mean. Not many other teachers have the love for teaching or helping their students like you did. Well that was my 2 cents ;) so I hope I helped you at least a little bit." Posted by jesushealus on 01/10/09 at 9:04PM
Faith was a beautiful young lady and a very intelligent human being. She was not a wild, belligerent, hateful monster like some of you are making her out to be. She had some issues, yes, but that was her purpose for being placed in a residential facility. She was there for intervention and to receive help. I am sure that there was alot of tension due to whatever issues her cottage was having, but to be left on the floor after being in a phycsical restraint, choking on her own vomit is a hard pill to swallow. Atleast her mother recognized the error of her ways and placed Faith somewhere that she could get the necessary help. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 9:11PM
Nonsense Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 9:12PM
by the way. I'm pretty sure he is dead so don't ask if I have personally spoke with him Posted by jesushealus on 01/10/09 at 9:13PM
Faith should have been checked on immediately following the restraint and then they would have realized something was wrong sooner if she already hadn't shown signs of distress. CPR could have been started sooner and given her a better chance of survival. When they got up from restraint she should not of been left on the floor. Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 9:15PM
That's very good teacmyeyes. I'm sure you are a very good English teacher. Arizona is lovely why are you back? Posted by annbolin on 01/10/09 at 9:34PM
Nonsense Posted by MzCastle on 01/10/09 at 9:35PM
What other options did Parmadale have? Perhaps the Parmadale staff should have used institutional straitjackets composed of duck cloth on these aggressive individuals as a way to restrain them? Should they have then placed the child in a padded cell, allow them to vent their anger for a period of time, and then let the person go, as soon as the staff can determine that the immediate danger has passed? Sure it sounds ridiculous and reeks of a sadistic 60s era Nurse Ratched, but what are you supposed to do when an individual becomes enraged and poses a serious threat to themselves and you? Nurse Ratched was the type of calculating tyrant who would impose hearty penalties on individuals who refused to take their psychotropic medication. This day in age, it is unethical to force people to take medication, anyway, and filling emotionally 'disturbed' [psychotic, angry, aggressive, escapist, anti-social....to name a few characteristics] children up with medications such as Adderral and Prozac is like putting a band aid on a bleeding bullet wound. It also seems as if using corporal punishment on children is another horrendous idea because it can lead to senseless deaths, as in the case of this child. So what do you do, when a child has learned to distrust authority, because their trust has been betrayed so many times? How do you restrain a child who has become engorged with rage, swollen with frustration, aching with anger at society, the perceived betrayal of their family, and the 'tyrannical' pull of the counselors in charge? Posted by IamBAD on 01/10/09 at 9:42PM
Thorazine, Prolixin, Haldol, Navane, Stelazine, Trilafon and Mellaril. Proven drugs to control violent outbursts. We should go back to the basics....use chemical restraints instead of physical restraints. Posted by MzCastle on 01/10/09 at 9:48PM
Posted by IamBAD on 01/10/09 at 9:42PM Thorazine, Prolixin, Haldol, Navane, Stelazine, Trilafon and Mellaril. Proven drugs to control violent outbursts. We should go back to the basics....use chemical restraints instead of physical restraints. In a perfect world....but you can't force an aggressive individual to take medication anymore then you can force a homeless person to search for a job. It's a fruitless quest, and besides, it's unethical to force someone to take medication against their will. Posted by IamBAD on 01/10/09 at 9:57PM
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SPECIESISM: 1. A PREJUDICE OF ATTITUDE OF BIAS TOWARD THE INTERESTS OF MEMEBERS OF ONE'S OWN SPECIES AND AGAINIST THOSE OF MEMBERS OF OTHER SPECIES. 2. A WORD USED TO DESCRIBE THE WIDESPREAD DISCRIMINATION THAT IS PRACTICED BY HOMO SAPIENS AGANIST THE OTHER SPECIES. SAVE OTHER-OUR SPECIES SOS-FRE FROM RESEARCH EXPERIMENT QUEST, MINISTRIES, GUY TEMPELTON BLACK, PASTOR, and YOGI YOGA BEAR, SERVICE K-9 (guy's partner) 753 BRAYTON AVE., CLEVELAND, OHIO 44113-4604 USA, V:216.861.7368, F:216.861.7368 UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES VETERAN (VOLUNTEER) PEACE, ANTI-WAR, DEFENSIVE faith based non-profit corporation no. 389646, 501(c)(3), SINCE 1965, questministry [at] att [dot] net
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The kids we have failed
Submitted by lmcshane on Sun, 01/11/2009 - 12:16.
It is important to see this picture of FAITH. WE failed this child.
It sounds like Parmadale is failing
Submitted by noner on Sun, 01/11/2009 - 12:51.
to maintain a sound environment for these children, judging from the PD article. The reporter actually did an excellent job delicately inserting the facts of the climate surrounding Faith's death. Anyone who has worked in this environment (I did two years PD Juvi) understands that judging from the article, the juveniles are running the place.
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