Submitted by ANGELnWard14 on Tue, 07/28/2009 - 21:47.
Cintron and REALNEO WALL

The dusk settled in on us a bit quick tonight... we'll have to finish/fix tomorrow! 

I have to fix my huge blunder on the graffitti style sign/mural that I posted... I accidently put .com vs .us after the website.But, in the interim...this was one of the few photos taken...Sorry guys-it was unintentional.


more to follow.

( categories: )

Sweet dot US


Love it...and Norm and Jeff B should especially enjoy...they love grafitti art!

WARD 14 Grafitti art....updated...Visit www.REALNEO.us

Hey guys... I couldn't take it....went back out and updated the blunder.... Anyone interested in painting a REAL mural after the election has my permission!


The sign is now broke into several areas: 




Visit www.REALNEO.US






Section 3: 

A HUGE Halo'd Happy Face the says: UNITE WARD 14 RESIDENTS ...

which has a boarded up window that reads: NO MORE SANTIAGO POLARIZATION & ABUSE


Section 4) NO MORE OF THIS: 


with an arrow pointing to something that says: 

               $30,000 to Fireworks in 2009.

Section 5) Includes 2 more boarded up windows on the front of the building: 

                            1) NO MORE SANTIAGO

                            2) Oops...cannot remember this second! Ran out of light for photos...but you get the jist.


SEE MY BLOG FOR AN UPDATED PHOTO IN THE DARK tonight.  More to follow...but the cars were blocking a good shot today. Have a great night all!!!

Quality of Life Issue

As one who has spent hours  in the neighborhood  picking up trash, painting out graffitti and planting flowers at my own expense, I am sickened by the graffitti on Carlyle and Fulton.  

  This is a quality of life issue and I cannot fathom how anyone who cares about the community could actually paint this not to mention brag about so doing on a blog.  Graffitti is defacement and what was done sends a message beyond any political slogan.  For those who have condoned this  in other posts, I ask:  Why? 

Kate Dupuis






Yep...quality of life...

I appreciate your efforts to clean up the community... but where's the quality of life without leadership that unites our community????? 

I think you've been duped by Santiago Ms. Dupuis! 

political speach (signs) exempt from many by-law controls.

This sign is not graffiti, it is political speach.   As political speach (and if the property owner doesn't mind the sign) the sign does not require the usual permits which commercial signage requires.

Characterizing the message as graffiti may be detrimental to the sign's health.


Angel is the first to call it graffiti. If Cintron does not make it past the primary, or does, then not the general, elections, will it be painted over?

Young adults have tagged the bathhouse at the playground across from me and have slowed down as it repeatedly gets painted over. I am sure that many graffiti artist think that their work is free speech.

Geauga political sign = free speech

A friend brought this local political sign - in Burton - to my attention.  Some political free speech issues go on for years.  Like the War in Irag.  Or clubbing seals in Newfoundland. 

Fighting the development fires in Geauga

Hey Jeff:

I laughed out loud when I saw the photo of the "Wanted Competent County Engineer" sign posted in Burton.

Back in the 1990s I was an activist for the NEO Sierra Club and mixed it up with folks who attended the 1996 Geauga County Fair at the Sierra Club booth. They gave me full reign over the booth so I posted a map of Geauga County with 16 little red fires mostly raging in Geauga's western tier of townships (which are really little cities by population). These indicated a wide variety of land use confrontations involving local folks who didn't want to see their townships raped by developers and highway improvers.

While most fairgoers simple rolled their eyes around the display so not to be tainted by controversy, some people yelled at me.

"You want to make everyone live in high rises in Cuyahoga County!" one man with a British accent yelled.

"I moved out of Cuyahoga County to get away from corrupt politicians," yelled someone who said they were from Chester Township. This was September 1996 and the guy didn't know what was happening. In 1992 Michael Spellman was elected as Chester Township Clerk. Apparently when Mr. Spellman realized that the township trustees were very trusting of who held the clerk position, Spellman, with his mother, started a non-profit organization that gave away money, with the help of enlisted celebraties in Las Vegas NV. The money they gave away was $4.3 million from Chester Township coffers.

In 2004 Mr. Spellman was sentence to 10 years in prison and his mother got time too. The trusting and unauditing Chester Township Trustees were voted from office.

So, corruption exists in Geauga County too.



free speech

  Angel found out today...she is okay posting as political speech and she has permission to use the building from the building owner.

Thank you for calling the inspectors Kate Dupuis & Santiago folk

With all due respect...yes, when this election's over...I'll paint the wall back to normal colors... and I will work to recover the building in general.

Kate, you raised enough cane today to get the only inspector for Ward 14 to rush out and take action...and he did, which I have no problem with. I actually appreciate that you are so inclined to protect and defend Santiago without thinking about how he has abused our residents over the last 4 years, disempowering them, and snidely acting as though he's so much better than everyone. Get real... this is not a battle you will win, sorry, that's life.... at least not in my arena...

I certainly wish you had spent that energy rallying the community to be truly represented over the last 4 years... maybe some good would have come out of your energies. I hear people daily talking about how they cannot get help, action, or information for that matter from our Councilman...mr. SANTIAGO! And, poof, you and him get the law department and the inspector all involved in less than 24 hours from the time that sign was posted! Action...my God...Where's this action been the last 4 years????? 


Could you all have found the inspiration to help families who are living on generators for electric?? Nope- BUT YOU FOUND ENERGY TO FILE COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE PEOPLE... You all are a bunch of fricken idiots down there... abuse the people who live here, don't help them to help themselves-that's not your job. You all have the worst attitude as city council leaders in all my life.  You all don't inspire crap except partying and bars..... I am taking a moment to calm down....

Kate, You are the same person who disavowed development in Ward 14 by advising Santiago not to support Community Development. You need to get your head checked. Why don't you move to the places where you advised Santiago to spend the money? You all are selfish and greedy.

Well, it's time for a wake up call to you and all of the folks who used abusive, negative campaigns to destroy Cintron. I am going to enjoy this battle with you and Santiago and the folks who are so happy about his polarizing agendas... you all should all relocate to snobville. You aren't civic minded, you aren't empowering, you are disgruntling and contemptive negative mongers. What you need is a good hug from the folks who are dying daily in our community of AIDS, living without proper nutrition because their rent is so high, hear the mentally ill ramble as they walk the streets,  and visit those living at homeless shelters with their kids because they've gotten themselves in trick bags of life. There are more folks in this community eating at the soup kitchen than you know and we're spending CDBG money on fireworks????? 


With all due respect... there were like 13 petitions pulled and 6 candidates filed in behind with candidacies to speak for the people....AGAINST JOE SANTIAGO!!!!! HELLO???? WHAT ARE YOU MISSING????? I applaud your loyalty...but it's absolutely unbelievable that you undermine my goal here...

That political statement on the wall speaks worlds about the folks you all don't represent!!!! 

The kids, the families, and the residents who do NOT agree with SANTIAGO'S WAYS.

So, take a moment to respect the people's voices who have been hushed for so long and quit trying to hide the 'less than desirable' truths of the world you're living in. This is reality here in Ward 14. Stop living in your cloud and trying to pretend that these issues are not continuing everyday. Take time to learn about the community that you supposedly live in. At least act like you have enough decency to appreciate that the demographics are allowed to choose whoever they want to be their future leader! 

But, prayerfully, this time around-the playing ground will be leveled by the TRUTH..... which is something your candidate evidently knows little about.... he's better at dog and pony sessions that hide the facts.  




Angel has energy!


Angel, you have passion!   I admire your ability to have that passion.

But you also scare me a little bit. For your health.  Wow.   Take a breath. Or two. You're probably just fine.

Realneo, from my perspective, is here to provide a medium for communication. Especially about politics.

I don't believe that Realneo - which is made up of many coop members - is able to endorse any candidate - but Realneo can and does endorse passionate community communication.  

Activism is Realneo in my book!  (any objection out there from other coop members - slam me back)

Before you posted on Realneo I read your posts on Cleveland.com, and I was impressed then by your energy.

Thanks for all your ernest and hard work for the community!



cited for planting trees

 Santiago's office called the forestry department on me when i planted two Cleveland Pear trees in my treelawn (the inspector told me they called = he asked me who i pissed off). 

Apparently they were mad at me because I organized a neighborhood group outside of the do nothing "block club" run by Santiago's Bs. The new group raised quite a stink about Envy Lounge.

He's lame. He's dishonest. So is his office. 

cited for planting trees

Of all the things to get cited for! Yes, he is dishonest. During his recall, I was visited by another councilman who assurred me that Joe "got it" and would be changing his ways. One year later, I sat in a room with Joe, Abe Bruckman and Pat Mahoney to talk about the proposed crematory. What an orchestrated pack of lies that whole thing was! 


Getting Cited in Ward 14: Inspections/citations are driven by...

Refer to my earlier blog about how this game works... and how it's abused by the leadership's powers that be...

My dearly beloved citizens.... it's an insult to our community at large that this insane process to get the job done is being abused by the leadership and violating the folks who need the most help.

It's time for us to stand up and hold this city at large accountable for it's redundant services and wasteful spending that results in corruption by all the wrong folks. Let's get back to the basics of life with this stuff and make a resolution to void the city of Complaint Enforcement Officers at CDC's...that is the job of the City Inspector's... who should be out in the neighborhoods policing regularly. Put a laptop, printer, and email access in their cars...let them pull up next to houses, print out the lists, and go to the next one...

If the citizens anticipate annual inspections...most would clean up their acts most a lot quicker. Then they'd work on prevention vs haha no one's gonna get me, who cares attitudes. It's become so bureacratic and ridiculous to make nonsense middleman jobs.

Just my opinon. YES, it's all about who you know... But what they failed to share is this.... and you'll love this...

THE ONLY WARD 14 CITY INSPECTOR CURRENTLY WORKING IS THE NICE GENTLEMAN WHO WORKED QUITE EXPEDITIOUSLY TO DO HIS JOB ZEALOUSLY FOR MR. SANTIAGO'S COMPLAINANTS... THANKS GUYS FOR ALL YOUR INSPIRATION... It forced me to learn more about my political rights amidst the chaos... now I can get more info from others and share it with the public!!!! 

MR. David A Hillard @ 216-664.3081,

Ward 14 BUILDING & HOUSING Inspector

See my blog for HOW TO FILE A COMPLAINT...

Let's protect and empower each other from these ruthless practices that are abusive and discriminatory!!! 

If you haven't noticed the bottom line, it's simple....ANYONE WHO QUESTIONS THE LEADERSHIP-GET'S RETALIATION THROUGH B&H! HELLO!!!! 

We are not the lawbreakers, we're the ones trying to unite to make a positive difference and we're being treated like wrongdoers by their games. I am not standing for this anymore!!! 


ii hate getting annoyed

 before 7am...

Well Angel, at least

Well Angel, at least somebody surfaced.  I am at the end of my rope in Ward 13.  The only inspector we see is the one who is the ball headed dude driving around trying to see how hard it is not to do his job unless it's some old person who is trying to get up the rickety steps and them Housing Code enforcement is right there "Johnny on the spot" writting out citations for whatever they can nail 'em with. 

We've got business owners pouring concrete, expanding patios, tapping to the tune of live entertainment, all without the proper permits, and no matter what you do or who you contact, they keep right on truckin' and everybody juse keeps making excuses. 

I am ticked off today more than you would ever believe.  I met with a group of about 20 residents last night for a discussion of the next step in out plan of action in taking control of our neighborhood again.  As we were all discussing our concerns and frustration about the type of businesses allowed in to our area, the changes being forced upon us by the threat of re-zoning and then to top it off, I find out that there is a petition being quietly cirrculated around for signaturesto gain permitted liquor sales on Sunday.  

This neighborhood is family oriented and dam we deserve at least one day without having to put up with the drunks, the noise and the traffic.  Where do we go for help?  If the politicians, local, city and state officials are all a part of this, who do we contact to protect our society?





Have you all tried a direct mediation with the Trmnt Bar owners?

Have you ever tried making a list of considerations that you'd like from those business owners... Specific neighbor to business owner mediation requests? 

Sounds like everyone's gotten so adverse that commo is ceasing.... IDK? 

You cannot mediate breaking the law

Angel, the big reason why all the toliet bowl garbage nightclubs, stripclubs, and bars continue to operate in Ward 14 and West 25 is because the City has laxed code enforcement. The City of Cleveland no longer has a night time B&H inspector citing nightclubs and bars.

This is a quality of life issue. How can the City clean up troublespots if they turn the other way and allow operations of resturants and bars to turn into nightclubs without proper zoning variances, permits, and off street parking. Half of the bars in Tremont operate in a non-compliant manner. But the City. Building and Housing, Cimperman and others know this and yet nothing is done. So that is tacit support, so when some knucklehead start pissing in some little old handicapped ladies flower bed you know what these people are putting up with. Then the same lady gets a violation notice that her gutter is loose.

It is a know fact that their is rampent corruption inside of Building and Housing.

You cannot mediate breaking the law

 And to go further, this has been such a long standing problem in the area that it is insane. When you strive for middle ground, like I need to sleep at night so that I can work the next day, or if you say it is not the right fit for the neighborhood, then you are labeled anti-business. We need a realistic solution to these problems.


Let's just ask the age old

Let's just ask the age old question - What is the big deal and what is wrong that these fine award winning businesses do not want to do a simple thing like apply for a proper valet permit, get a Certificate of Occupancy, get a permit to build a patio or to have live entertainment? 

I believe that if you check you need a permit to build a wheelchair ramp onto your house if you need it?   I've seen several hearings scheduled at BOZA for this purpose.  What or who sets these businesses above being compliant or obtaining the proper permits?  Where are the inspectors when somebody calls in and makes a complaint?  If we were just dealing with one or two, I could get it, but their all over Tremont like a polka dot dress. 

There has been enough publicity, communications to public officials, Building and Housing, and they just drive through, wave and go on.  There are many hard working tax paying citizens down around here - are they not entitled to the benefit of their dollars  being used to enforce the law?  Are they not entitled to some peace and quiet so that they can get a decent night's rest in order to carry out a safe day's work.  You have truck drivers, medical personnel, people who drive the bus that maybe your kids ride to school - are these people expected to be kept up until three in the morning and then sleep enough to get up at 5:00am and stay awake on the roads and highways or treat maybe your child or loved one while being so sleepy they can't keep a clear head or stay awake?

Mediation, yea, we tried that with working out a Good Neighbor Agreement with these businesses - guess what, they only want it if the residents will sign so that they don't have to obtain these required permits.  When you ask yourself what is the big deal?  The only thought that crosses your mind is  - kickbacks, payoffs, or favortism - take your pick. 



you know what -

 I totally misread the barfcam comment - yes - do it!

I remember living on Fairfield Avenue 10 years ago and hating the weekends. The restaurant on the corner ( I forget what its name was then - one of the first fancy pants) used to "valet" all up and down our street. So if I came home with groceries, or laundry or i just really didn't want to park two blocks away from my home at night(safety?) it was an ordeal. 

Well then we found out the restaurant owned a vacant lot across from their building, but they didn't want to bother setting up a parking lot there because of liability issues (yes - they actually said this). They had complete and total disdain for the residents.

This was ten years ago and it really hasn't changed in tremont. One of the major reasons it has not changed is because Tremont West Development Corporation will pimp out the neighbors' rights to gain more glamorous commercial interests. So, diplomacy may not be an appropriate solution.

I'm sure that a lot of

I'm sure that a lot of readers are probably saying what the hell.  Nobody wants to hear about another intoxicated idiot puking on the sidewalk and, I might agree if it was in a back alley or behind the barn for it would be out of site;  reality is we live here and over {years} of dealing with the disgusting mess day after day, night after night and weekend after weekend it's just too much.

Imagine getting up, walking out the door and the first thing you encounter on the way to your car taking your child/grandchild to breakfast is a big pile of stinking fly swarming vomit right in your path - you either have to step over, try to walk around the splash or go through it.  You grab the waterhose and start spraying - manage to overcome and then,  Tremont has a big ale tasting bash - on a hot day and you've just made yourself a fresh cup of coffee, sat down on the porch and right before your eyes, here comes a joker up-chucking - So much for enjoying a fresh cup of jo.  This is another reason for getting the overflow commercial parking off of our streets - at least, they can puke in the parking lots.

It does not take too long to get tired and fed up with this - but nobody listens or gives too hoots that we, our children and  pets endure this nastiness.  When you bring it up to the bar owners, all you hear is, "our clientel is some of the most professional people you'll ever meet."  and......


Well, they're getting an

Well, they're getting an early start tonight.  It's not even nine O'clock and they're already too drunk to hold their liquor.  My brother pulled up on the corner of College Avenue and West 7th and just as he was getting out of his van, some jackass sobered up real fast,  on the North side of the street by the street sign, by up-chucking his stomach contents, slurring a few four letter words and then wobbling on up the street to the Tree House.  

My brother thought that perhaps we should start calling for a bio-chemical clean ups  since these are bodily fluids left in the public right of way - where folks walk with their children and dogs.




Barfcam NEO?

The Coop planning team has had discussions about creating a COOP IPTV network of webcams all over the region, in areas where there are interesting views and scenes to see. They would be pan, tilt, zoom cameras and you could select, among many, and control via the Internet. Interesting locations could include the Cuyahoga Riverfront and lakefront, Public Square, sports stadiums, arenas and event venues, the Beachland and Waterloo arts district, etc... an interesting demonstration of a similar initiative is in Budapest, Hungary.

Where would you put such video cameras around NEO, and in Tremont?

I think a video of a kid parking and getting out of his car and barfing on the sidewalk in Tremont would be very popular.

Disrupt IT

i say leave tremont out...

 we were at Blue Arrow music store on Waterloo, down from the Beachland, last night. they gave a shakin' hot dog fest fest with a cold keg of Labatt's, super dogs from the shop across the street and nice local bands.

I was talking to another artist I know, who used to live in tremont and now lives and works on waterloo. I asked how he liked it. His answer was so interesting - lets see if I can get it right - he said it was a difference of living in a neighborhood that already had its rules and codes decided and living in a neighborhood that was defining itself everyday. (Waterloo)

really nicely put.


sad about Tremont but good to hear about Waterloo. Ohio City had a lot of potential but became the place where property values outweighed people values. When changes started in Tremont with artist moving in, a lot of us hoped that Tremont would become the poster child for postive change rather than genterfication. Instead it is going down the usual path, and that is really too bad.

I agree Henry..but we have to figure out some resolves that work

1) Did the lady get her gutter fixed? If not can we help her. Trust me, that's the simplest immediate resolve to that issue... I get the corruption, but the paperwork that was started against her may be pending and then it becomes criminal housing court for noncompliance...a court nightmare too unnecessary to play in the immediate.

2) Corruption or not... we're beating a dead horse in that path...

NOW is almost Aug 2009....

   What can we do to prevent this in the future? 

    What are the desires/terms that the residents seek today? (List some realistic items/wants/desires/etc.) 

We can share war stories later about historical actions that have not worked, and you can give me guidance all the same which I'll heed.... But give me something I can work with here, b/c I don't know all the details/specifics and I don't have a lot of time to research the history this week, so I am depending on you to simplify bringing me up to speed...


I made a metaphor relating to a single person

Angel, the Ward 13 Tremont issues are far to complex for me to want to debate online with you. 100's of people are on lists in Ward 13 dealing with such  complaints and/or violations. All I am saying going after one class (the resident) versus non-compliant business owners is what Jerleen is referring to by B&H.

Helping these poor people is actually the real Job of the CDC. I will let Jerleen get into the discussions over people, violations etc. with you.

The point I am making is troublemaker locations in Ward 14 are not being taken to task by the City of Cleveland has alot to do with locations in Tremont and some in Ohio City that willfully break the law.  (New teen nightclub in the former Kan Zaman site at 1917 West 25th) The do not even have a freakin Certificate of Occpancy)

You energy is great but I do not think I can give a five year history lesson over the liquor license fights going on in Tremont in a post.

You can help thier are several illegal operations left in Ward 14. Start with just one. Start with one close to you political wall.

Crystals Sports Palace on Fulton and thier non-compliant entertainment of oil/jello/mud wrestling and DJ's (Which they were already cited for compliments of yours truely) this brings in a rowdy crowd that then spills out into the adjoining residential community because they really do not have the proper legal parking.



I know I'm going out on a

I know I'm going out on a limb here, but beauty is in the eyes of the beholder and a lot of what I call graffiti some people call art -

I'm not talking about the everyday nasty dirty words that get painted all over everywhere.  But sometimes I'll be driving along and see drawings and writings that really have a lot of detail and took a lot of time to complete.  I often find myself wondering who did it.  This clearly takes talent because I can't draw a round circle.  I wonder what the individual who used his/her raw talent to {deface} property (under bridges, walls, etc.) in this manner,  could do if they had the opportunity to develope and refine those artistic gifts.

Train Avenue is one of the places I've seen some really far out pieces of work (some not so hot) but the railroad tracks go all the way up through there and the wall goes quite a ways up Train as well.  Anybody ever think about maybe dedicating or designating an area - sort of off the beaten path, for artist such as these to draw and express themselves.  If it was made as a place to exhibit the art, then maybe all the artists would make it a point to keep the area clean - and make it a prideful place to show off their work.

Just my thoughts.






I'll donate my wall after the election for artists....

Jerleen...let's publicly display their artwork... I'll take proposals for after the election....

out on a limb

I will go out there with you on the Train Ave graffitti. There are really some good graffitti artist out there.


Map me to Train Ave Graffiti

Is this just off W25th,  where this image was taken?  If not, please map me in Scotty! Thanks, jeffb

How about it?  We could

How about it?  We could plan an event and get some much needed attention to Train Avenue.  Call around get media coverage, etc., what do you all think   Maybe even find some financial backing, donations from the art world and get something good started?  If we knock on the right doors we just might open the right doors for some future great artist? 

I get to Train Avenue by going up Kennilworth, crossing West 14th and going down over Willey Hill then turning left up Train and following it all the way out to the U-Haul place by West 58th (I believe it's 58th).  The wall behind the tracks is on the right going up.

The funny thing is, you never see anybody doing the artwork.  It's like it just appears - ghost writer's or something.

Train Ave. Major Improvements are going to come to Train Ave

I am going to link several sites regarding Train Ave. So before we send all the taggers down their keep in mind Stockyard Redevelopment and OCNW's Abe Bruckman are involved in the planning procees. I attended two of the three public meetings last year. TWDC even is involved. Kristen Ciofani helped run breakout groups.

I would like to see someone set-up some bear-traps next to some of the pillars, so we can catch the tagger varments.

What was interesting not many residnets showed up, some business owners were thier but mostly lobbiests. Bioswales will be intalled!!!

This is working in conjunction with Tim Donovan from Ohio Canal Corr.

Link to Master Plan

City of Cleveland Planning Department

Cuyahoga County Planning site

Train Ave Annual Clean Up Day in May

Isn't there a group that does a bunch of work annually in May on Train Avenue? They appear to be getting bigger and stronger every year... They'd be a great resource too! 

Are those like the bioswales

Are those like the bioswales we've been waiting on to be built into the parking lot at 807 Jefferson Avenue.  If so, we might be waiting a long, long time.  TWDC has promised that the new parking facility at 807 Jefferson  which, by the way, Tremont West forked over and invested $10,000 of model block funds, more than a year ago and the only thing the promised 807 Jefferson off-street parking lot is used for is to park big monster pieces of machinery and stock pile rocks and dirt for Union Gospel Press.  Every time you bring up the subject of "when will we see these so called 60 plus off-street parking spaces (half for Tremont Lofts (Union Gospel Press) and half for public parking), they (at TWDC) get this rather "green"  sheepish look on their face and the answer is, "soon, it's coming real soon."  (The property was purchased from the City Land Bank in 2005). 

In any case, even though I am not in favor of taggers, getting the graffiti artists to help clean up Train Avenue might be the best hope we have in our lifetime.  Seems to me like all this money is floating around for green but no green is growing - unless you're talking about the "green" TWDC got from Clark Metro and West 25th St., now I do believe that some pockets were ferterlized and sprouted faster than being activated by miracle grow and got a lot greener on those Ward 14 poor people's dollars but other than that, we're still waiting on the bioswales and the "green."







Redirecting those energies

  Thanks Jerleen--I was thinking the same thing. There are talents apparent in wielding a spray can or spray gun.  I wish we could direct these kids to a more productive application.

BFD notes that a local group coordinated by Dan Hanson is working to win a $25,000 prize from the Markham wineries to complete community murals. READ more and submit your name/email in support of the proposal: 



Kids with lots of energy await great leadership & direction!

Hey everyone...when the plan comes together, give me a heads up so I can work to send kids to help out! There's a ton of them wandering around aimlessly in our community... just waiting to find something of value to be an integral spoke in the wheel of change! 

Oh, and we know kids :)

I am going to bed now...must face the music tomorrow :)

14: Kids have a voice too.. yet Student Govt was removed too...

Can you find any more ways to disempower our community at large? 

Parents/Families and School District Folks.... get involved in the process of life... Demand that they put Student Government back into schools so that our children can learn their political rights and so that they can have the choice of growing up to be proactive in this community.

This is yet another reflection of how our community in Ward 14 got so off track and disempowered... the removal of basic Student Government from our local schools.


Angel, I am not in the Santiago camp, not by a long stretch. I will defend his "lies" to the government though IF you are talking about the US government "don't ask, don't tell" policy. This policy was put into place so that gay and lesbian service people would not have to lie. The government doesn't ask, the service people don't lie. If they come out while in the service, they are court martialed and put out of the service.

So that we are all on the same page, is this the lie that you reference above?


Just a couple lies... of Santiagos...

Councilman Joe Santiago has a philosophy born of his self-reliant background and experience of "getting the job done" in the Navy.  He feels that those who want to improve the community need to "step up to the plate instead of simply complaining." What he is modest about is his leadership ability to motivate people to do that, to organize and involve his constituents to work as a team on the streets to do an overwhelming job to improve their neighborhood.  His emphasis is on participation and moving forward, as opposed to allowing negativity to block progress.  When he first came home from the military, he said, he saw wonderful festivals but felt that something was missing in his community.  He wanted to be an aggressive advocate for betterment.  When I asked him exactly how that is done, he quipped, "serve lots of food."


"I need to run an effective, hard campaign, so I can have the opportunity to bring about a united ward," said Santiago.

1) He has not accomplished his goal of motivating his constituents to work as a tearm... His very own negativity blocked progress-particularly with shutting out local community development.

2) Oh my God...it's been controversial, polarized, and discouraging for 4 years...

3) He stopped forums when asked to be held accountable for quite a few poor choices. Did he change...yep...he made sure that before he left-he stripped Ward 14 of another 2 years worth of funding??? WOW! 

4) He told the CMDC in the Spring that there was no money (CDBG funds) left for the year.... then

A) Somehow he found $30k to give the Flats-Oxbow in June for fireworks??? Please tell me that's not a blatant lie... and if it wasn't a lie b/c he had previously agreed to fund them....then in actuality it was not a "SAVE THE DAY" issue-moreover a politically motivated issue that resulted in the world becoming aware of his abusive tactics to violate the needs of the residents in his ward.

B) Somehow he found like what $60-100k to give to Stockyard to "SAVE THEM"...


my, my...let's applaud Joe Santiago, the knight in shining armor who

    1) wouldn't fund his own CDC, but sent our monies to other CDC's to save them??? Hello...

     2) wouldn't help the desperate families in Ward 14 to get help either...







US gov't/lies/Santiago

Angel, what is the lie that that Santiago gave to the US government for 8 years? You have posted that at least twice, and I really want to know.

The response you gave the first time that I asked does not address the lie to the government for 8 years.




The DADT policy came into effect in 1993, he joined in 1987. That means he used fraudelent, deceitful, lies to get through his enlistment. HE was NOT protected by the DADT at his first enlistment..even if you don't agree with that idea because the laws were/are sucky for the gay professionals who are/have been great military people.

The lie was falsifying documents to get into the military and lying on applications and military entrance docs... I find that action as being FRAUDULENT, no matter the reasoning.

Despite my opinion about SANTIAGO's FRAUD, DECEIT, and LYING regarding this issue...which is a fact regardless of the defensive reasoning as to bad laws... I am going to agree with all those who wish to open the doors to gays in the military... even as lifelong military person... I recognize their professional abilities all the same. Maybe Santiago can move on to finish his goal of changing that law and fighting the federal government to amend/update it to achieve his highest goal in life...Maybe it'll give him something to do when we get rid of him from Ward 14!!!! 



 Your crediblity is slipping with me. You know for a fact that when Santiago went into the service in 1987 that he was gay at that time and you know for a fact that he lied about that?

You would also bash someone when the choice is bad government policy vs. being able to serve?

If you want to call Santiago a liar based on a direct interaction, that is fine. I would even support you. But the above is just not credible.

Also, given Nelson Cintron's past moral dilemma's, I would think that he would prefer not to mud sling in this manner.

Debbie Webb, also Ward 14

Gay Military Signal 070508Santiago

Yes...I did know that as a fact b/c of this article, but I do stand corrected b/c he joined in 1988, not 1987.

"He had known he was gay since he was a teenager; yet that simply was not an issue for him when he decided to join the Navy in 1988."

Please cite his interview.... explicitly detailing how he lied throughout his military career....

Gay Military Signal 070508Santiago

Debbie Webb... I cited several incidents...but you are stuck on this one. I can respect what you are saying... I appreciate that. It's just one fact in a list of everyone's complaints about his deceit. Yet, it's valid non the less, as stated in his interview.

Yes...bad government policy...totally agreed.


Thanks for the article; it gives me something to actually like about Santiago and I applaud his breaking barriers.

Stuck? You are the one that has repeated "lied to his government".  Sorry but again, not credible.


what is your name

AngelnWard14, you have my name. What is your name? I like to know the name of the person that I am talking with.

Debbie Webb 


Please, take your energies to your federal legislators on this issue, not me. I agreed to disagree and still respected your opinion & position on the matter of DADT.


Some Veteran and member of the VFW that Santiago is.... he refused to help the one in your own back yard when they called him for help last year, before closing indefinitely.

Maybe you'd like to defend such dishonorable choices...but that's you...not me....


not what she said

 Ms. Angel. 

the federal legislatures have nothing to do with your use of a gay man or woman's hiding their queerness to serve their country to impugn that gay man or gay woman's integrity.

I'll go a step further and say it is a slap in the face to the many brave gay men and gay women who not only lied about their sexual orientation to serve our country, but risked their lives to do so, and suffered the inane "stigma" brought by homophobic idiots.

I'll go one more step further and say your using Santiago's alleged "lying" to gain entry to the military as indicia of his lack of integrity reeks of thinly veiled homophobia. My gaydar is screaming BIGOT. So, probably, is every other person with fluidity on their Kinsey scale. 

Now allow me to condition these statements by saying I can't STAND Santiago. But. if you are hoping to secure votes for Cintron, I would knock off the gaybaiting.

once more

I will ask for your name, again.

Debbie Webb 

What's my name got to do with Santiago being a disgrace.....


we are done

Since you won't be forthcoming with who you are, why continue? 

Using screen names

dwebb, we as a co-op have not addressed how to deal with screen names vs. real identities, which is one of the reasons people were able to mess with the community over the last two weeks.

Until we resolve these issues, you may contact Angel via realneo's contact capability and determine if you are willing to share your personal information off line - there is no reason for Angel to do that here, under the current terms - she just can't hide here identity or be herself to cause harm to others here, or break the terms of use of the site.

Each of you need to get involved with the actual REAL COOP planning as we are way behind in making that world-class. Contact me if you or anyone else out there wants to really help develop REAL COOP in any way at all!

norm [at] realneo [dot] us

Disrupt IT


Norm, that is not the point. To continue posting one after another as part of a political  campagin is a different horse. She needs to identify herself when called to do so. However, I see that forcing this is not COOP current poilcy. It does not mean that I  can't call her out on it.

 Be that as it may, I am willing to work on REAL COOP planning. You have my e-mail address.

In the meantime, I am hard at work on the wireless mesh for my street. You told me yesterday to come back in a week with names of partcipants and that is my weekend goal. I am also talking this weekend to an IT person so that I don't embarrass myself. Also, a few months ago, Bill Callahan posted an updated on how this was going on his street with a cool diagram of how it worked.

I can't find that now. Do you know how this was posted?



Norm, that is not the point. To continue posting one after another as part of a political  campagin is a different horse. She needs to identify herself when called to do so. However, I see that forcing this is not COOP current poilcy. It does not mean that I  can't call her out on it.

 Be that as it may, I am willing to work on REAL COOP planning. You have my e-mail address.

In the meantime, I am hard at work on the wireless mesh for my street. You told me yesterday to come back in a week with names of partcipants and that is my weekend goal. I am also talking this weekend to an IT person so that I don't embarrass myself. Also, a few months ago, Bill Callahan posted an updated on how this was going on his street with a cool diagram of how it worked.

I can't find that now. Do you know how this was posted?


Challenge the ideas in the discussion, not the person.

Let's say the person behind door 1 supported one candidate, and the person behind door 2 supported another canditate. We didn't know the supporter's names - just their arguments about their candidates.  The discussion isn't really improved by knowing who (person) is advancing the different arguments, is it?

On the other hand, if someone is not advancing debate/argument, but only making ad hominem attacks, then the name of the person would be important to know.  

I have had lots of different outlooks over the years on screen names vs real names.   For sure there have been many good ideas and healthy discussions on Realneo conducted by both real named persons and others who use aliases. And, there have been individual users who use both. 



both can be handy, alias and real names. Have you had experiences where the real person won't come out when called? What is your take on that? Do you think that it is a right of privacy issue? If so, do you think that it applies in all scenarios or are there limits? 



reality web

I think real names, real identity, lend towards more responsible posts.

Just my two cents. If you don't have the balls to say it with your name attached  - shut up. Again, just my two cents. i don't give much credibility to posters who don't use their real names. It is all too easy to create a fictional persona based on an idealized version of your self (or something else all together). just my two cents.

For Deb Webb...

You and I may be related...we might know each other well...and we may have spent time talking and discussing matters of significance along the way about our community. We may bump into each other at the store, we may sit across from each other at meetings, and we may like the same places and people or not...

1) My position on this matter has absolutely NOTHING to do with who I support in this election campaign. But, since you want to go there...It'd be nice for you to know that because of Nelson Cintron's respect, consideration, and understanding of matters of this nature, I have been receptive to learning, overcoming my own ignorances, and accepting things I cannot change, respectfully. Moreover, Mr. Nelson Cintron Jr. supports our troops regardless of their sexual identity and he's not being a bigot in the least.

Debra...For someone who cares so passionately about this subject matter, you are only reducing the odds that I would want to try to respect your position another moment. I heard you the first time. You are inciting negative communication without consideration. I'd be the first to tell you that you are not promoting a healthy discussion in the least by being so contemptuous about certain things. I have gay friends all over this city...many of who have no problem communicating with me on matters we don't agree on. I have never been treated so erroneously by anyone who is gay, supports gay liberation, is a gay in the military,  or who is a bigot for that matter-as you have treated me today. Did it make you feel big to attempt to reduce me as a person by using your negative words? 

2) You're blatant contempt for my opinion on this subject matter, your desire to call me out, and your echoing chaos over this is frustrating b/c you obvously have no respect for other matters which you are unaware of in this community. Your impatient attitude, demanding insults, and forthright name calling are inconsiderate, selfish, and absolutely unnecessary. I gave you respect, while you attempted to annihilate me in your own little way. You expect folks to learn from that type of bashing? Come on now... You just shut down communication without teaching me anything... except that you cannot respect others the way you expect to be respected. That's LIFE 101. Your actions are abusive as far as I am concerned.

The entire REALNEO Community understands that we don't agree on this technical matter that you are too busy defending to appreciate. You're so quick to judge and so quick to berate someone who doesn't agree with your perceptions of things.

3) You need to stop trying to power shovel your position on matters down other people's throats. I gave you respect, repetitively...but you obviously cannot handle respecting my position-even when we are not going to agree...You screaming at me, ignoring the simplicity of agreeing to disagree, and your wrongful correlations to the election-are out of line.

4) As for being an idiot,  who is the one who's using the terms homophobic, gaydar, and bigot when they don't agree with someone else? Heck, I have never heard of 'gaydar' until I read that herein and had to google it!!!(Guess that makes me ignorant!)  I don't care if you are gay, straight, black or white...we are all human beings and we all bleed red blood...cry wet tears and live amongst each other. I came here to share positive, productive, and respectful issues...not be berated by someone who is clueless. My name is not important. I am no one special. I am just a normal human being. None of us are perfect....

5) Tonight, while you were so irate about my position- I was out in the community working with the people. I came across a single mother of 5 children who had her electric shut off yesterday. She's losing all of her groceries, 2 of her children have medical special needs, and to top it off, they had a fire from candles last night... As I came across this group of kids sitting inside a car with the doors open for light and the radio on outside of their home... the children were so nice, kind, polite, respectful, and well mannered with helpfulness when I asked where their mom was at? They immediately  ran to get her. When she came out of the house,  she was so exasperated, overwhelmed, and peeved about life...and she started screaming that "no one cared about anyone anymore, to leave her alone..." Boy did I know how she felt...

So, I turned around and asked her why she felt that way and she poured out the story about how her electric got shut off, the kids caught the house on fire, and so forth... by the time she had vented the list of items that had her ready to give up on things... we were both laughing (to hide the tears) about how our cars were both broke in the same way... And soon, I was working to let her know that someone cared about her and her children... that even if I couldn't do much, I could respect and understand her situation.

It was already dark... The onset of another night in the dark, the fact that she has to work or lose her job, and the many concerns she had came out on the table had her frazzled. As I worked to filter through what I COULD do vs what she had to do.... I watched the world come off her shoulders-if only for a moment in time...she found unbelievable respite to her world of worries for her children and for herself. Ultimately, after calling several places to get her help-unsuccesfully...I ended up offering to allow her and her children to come to stay at my home for the night...Complete strangers. Since they got here, the one teenager sat in a chair so quietly reading a book...the other children played the piano... and a couple more played in the bedroom with toys. Right now I have my child plus 5 other children sleeping in my house... they are safe and sleeping soundly after the exhaustion of events over the last day or so.

Maybe that's crazy to you...but you obviously have no clue about me. You are too busy trying to make me a bad guy. I don't need your respect/disrespect. I have my plate full giving a damn about the vulnerable people who need to get through the day...the people losing their homes, the people who really need my spirit in their worlds... I do what I do, without worrying about what you think of me. If tomorrow never comes, I won't have regrets that I could have done something along the way to help another person on this planet... That's just me. So, please take a step back from being so angry about anyone who doesn't have the exact same views as you. If you want them to appreciate your views, then appreciate theirs-even when you don't agree.

Respectfully Yours,


Keeping it REAL

  As someone who knows you as a flesh and blood person--I want to thank you for your comments here and for caring so much for the families and kids in our shared neighborhood in the new Ward 14.  At some point, though, you may want to reveal your real name to avoid the suspicion you and anonymous posters unintentionally generate.

And, thank you for taking in the family you mention here...I believe I know them.  I know that mom will always know you by the name you deserve in life--Angel.

Deb and dbra

 are two different people - I'm not sure that comes clear.

Angel. It is gaybaiting and homophobic to insinuate that a person is dishonorable or dishonest because they hide their queerness to join our military. I'm not going to explain it more than i already have. I am not circumlocutious.

Neither am i going to dog and pony show my acts of social righteousness.

OK - I'll be nice - Could you please stop gaybashing? Please omit the above mentioned issue when trashing your opponent.

Thank you.

The essence of a name

Debbie, what you're asking for is a political disclaimer regarding Angel's posts relating to upcoming elections.  Perfectly rational way to evaluate  credibitilty and that's why Ohio Campaign Law requires a disclaimer on all political information.  

For example, when I read Henry Senyak, I feel comfortable that his information is accurate and well-researched.  Digesting information from an unknown- to- me source requires some homework.

To prevent endless paragraphs of discourse from Angel, I am in no way implying her anti-Santiago/pro-Cintron posts are not credible.  We must all judge for ourselves.

Kate Dupuis - you may have noticed, I always identify myself when commenting for that very reason.  Also keeps me thoughtful, polite and honest. 

citizen to citizen

 I asked as a citizen in a forum  the name of another citizen who is posting what looks like campaign platforms and claims.

I especially take issue with the gaybashing disgused in a manner Bush/Cheney would approve of.

What I get in response are nonsenical rhetoric and stories of efforts to save various people, casues, etc., so, like I said,  we are done.

I do not hold this against the candidate; he may not have the time to read this stuff and may be unaware that it is even happening.

Debbie Webb

I like

 your posts, Kate (and thanks for the schooling - i dO get testy....ask my husband).

If anyone cares, my name can be viewed by clicking my moniker.

Dbra, thanks.  I can be as

Dbra, thanks.  I can be as stupid, idiotic, wrongheaded as anyone.  I learn more from the people that disagree with me than my like-minded cohorts.  Constructive criticism; i.e., enlightenment perhaps is always welcome.  We all care about our community.  We need to build bridges and work together.  For me to insinuate than Angel is not active in the neighborhood was disingeneous and for that, I apologize.  Kate Dupuis