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Nobama Care Picketers at Cleveland ClinicSubmitted by Jeff Buster on Mon, 10/19/2009 - 19:05.
I am not clear why the Cleveland Clinic was the chosen spot for these picketers - but America is pretty cool that you can just show up, wave your sign, and be observed. Please read more about this afternoon's event at the Realneo banner link here
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Did these picketers have a
Did these picketers have a permit to picket? Isn't a permit needed to picket anywhere? I thought it was needed, but I could be wrong since I am not an experienced picketer.
I would like to know why these picketers think that a public option would be so bad that they feel compelled to picket against it.
re: Did these picketers have a
I would like to know why these picketers think that a public option would be so bad that they feel compelled to picket against it.
I don't know what these particular picketers think. However, there are many people who believe that a public option will inevitably lead to single payer. If they object to single payer, then it follows that they will (likely) object to a public option.
W14R
You don't have experience in picketing? Want to gain some? Pick a place, and I'll go with you and we will see if we need a permit. Usually you don't if you picket in a public space, do not block walkways and access, etc.
These picketers probably just needed a break from campaigning for issue 3 and this was the next think to do on the list of the privileged.
Okay, dwebb, how about we
Okay, dwebb, how about we picket Lincoln West High School or better yet Eugene Saunders. I doubt that the two of us would get much attention though. Can we do it on a warm day? <smile>
I will picket Saunders
I will picket Saunders with you. Poor Lincoln West. They don't need picketers. Can you imagine adding to that chaos? Saunders makes enough money with salary, bonuses, benefits, and drivers and a car (does he get a free house too?) that if you added that up, well, we might be able to hire a few more teachers. Saunders earns enough money to deserve our pickets. Anyone else wants to join W14R and I? I will make signs but not good signs (not a graphic artist). We just have to make sure that Saunders is there, in town. Hate to picket someone who is really on vacation. Maybe Jeff can take pictures, and we can chant, and maybe Eugene will come out to talk to us. We can then write a story for realneo and publish it here. Well, maybe we can just picket. W14R and dwebb on a warm day.
When Voinovich was mayor, his administration was really screwing up the release of funds to neighborhood groups. I was the director the the group that received the funds then dispensed them to the other groups. THis went on excuse after excuse. We met to decide how to handle it. We had done the paperwork, the money was ours, reports were filed, and what next. One of the groups was the Senior Citizens Coalition. They decided to go see the mayor, unannounced. There were a lot of them, a lot of elderly, mainly African American women with some world experience under their belt. They knew how to play the game. We show up, the ladies say we are here to see the mayor. We are told we can't. We say we will wait. We form lines so that the hallway becomes a passageway between elderly people, but enough room to pass. We are extremely polite, but we aren't leaving. THe chief of staff comes out to offer an appointment, but the ladies say no, we are already here, so we will just wait. Extra police officers are called but arrive to find elderly ladies signing church hymns, and back off. Then the admin staff decide that we need to go into the "red room", the meeting room. We ask if the mayor is in there, they say no so we go back to standing and quietly signing the hymns. We are then invited to meet with the chief of staff in the meeting room, and one woman gets so softly testing saying if George can not come sit with us, then we won't set. No argument was tolerated, and it was clear that it was Mayor George Voinovich forcing these elderly ladies to stand because he wouldn't come sit with us. And, no, we don't want chairs in the hallway because we came to set with George, It ended with George himself coming out and leading us into the redroom and talking to us for about an hour. He got the funds released that day, and Fannie Lewis went to the department that cuts the checks to see that they were written and handed to the people they were supposed to go to. Thanks, Fannie, cause we got promisies, you got us the checks. Even though you forced us to drive you over to the hot dog inn for lunch, it was well worth you help.
REAL COOP Picket Brigade
There is probably a meeting or event we should picket every day in NEO. We need to get organized and use the event calander to identify people, places and events that need a public display of alternative viewpoints, e.g the upcoming Annual Meeting of University Circle Inc. is an excellent place to picket against Opportunity Corridor and Coal Power Plants...
There are initiatives like these to challenge avery day, in Real NEO. REAL COOP is well positioned to help organize enlightened citizen activism. Eventually, citizens will gain access to the Red Rooms and meetings deciding the future of our region, and will participate in deciding that future. Until then, it is time to sing some church hymns in the hallways, and stand up for our rights.
Disrupt IT
W14R
Ward14resident, if you still want to try picketing, we can picket the round-about. We would have to review the accident record so that we pick a place of relative safety if there is one, but we could do that and maybe a few other people could join in. Just a thought.
If I can even find the
If I can even find the round-about. lol...I go out of my way to avoid it. I didn't want to be the person causing the accident. Where would we begin to petition for a change in the road? From what I understood the main reason for the round-about was to help business in the Tremont area, to slow traffic down so people would take notice of the area.
Now yesterday I was told
Now yesterday I was told that the round-about was designed specifically as a show case for that fine piece of art sitting in the middle of the round.
What ponders my mind is with so many restaurants/bars in Tremont, why hasn't anyone thought of building one in the center of that design and call it the "Round-About Waterin' Hole." Can't find any place to park, just flip you truck, crawl out, lagger on over and wet your whistle. Never mind the light poles, there's only about three left. The cops will come, keep an eye on your load and by the time your're ready, the Recovery Service will tip your truck back on it's wheels and you can be on your way. No muss no fuss, just another day in the "Round-About." (Sounds just like Tremont to me)
Press release from ODOT re the round-about - Aug, 2006
http://www.dot.state.oh.us/projects/ClevelandUrbanCoreProjects/Innerbelt/News%20Releases/QuigleyRdPressRelease.pdf
A roundabout was chosen for
I couldnt' find an instructional video on the ODOT site. Can you? I did find this one from News Channel 5 in 2007. From County Planning site, "When it opens on August 21, the Quigley Road Connector in Cleveland will feature the area's first roundabout. ODOT has prepared a page on navigating a roundabout on their Quigley Road Connector site." Check out how many of these links get you to 404. Why oh, why can't these sites redirect one to archived material? Same deal with discussion links on GCBL and probably here at realneo.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I remember the innerbelt boondoggle conversations from a few years back. It wasn't just that our county planner had a better idea for a two way bridge on a southern alignment that would not take the Greek Church, but more and more "must do" highway projects. West Shoreway was to be slowed until they realized that 35mph wouldn't be a highway project - doesn't qualify for state/federal funding at that speed. Ed Hauser called it "curb cuts for developers"; paid for by Cleveland taxpayers of course. (update: The City and ODOT are working to change State law to permit the reduction of the speed limit to 35 mph) OK well, while we do the section 106 review of historic properties that will fall for the innerbelt BS, lets also argue about the Juvenile Justice Center and the trench and the Carnegie ramp, OK?
But remember that we also want the "Opportunity Corridor" and the "Quigley Road Connector". Oh... well there is much more agruing to ensue here then. No, we will surely build that Quigley Road Connector to allow for the truck traffic to the flats because at that time Gordon Proctor was assuming that the port would be moving to Whiskey Island and despite the idiocy of getting materials on trucks from Whiskey Island through Ohio City, they would have to have a complicated way to get through the flats and onto I-71, 77 or 90. I asked Proctor about this at a City Club Forum, and he admitted that the intermodal was in limbo because the port at that time was a moving target. But they planned to build it anyway.
Now the Opportunity Corridor is under discussion and the "we need this road" rhetoric is ramping up again. ODOT District 12 needed to prove that they could do something and do it right by going ahead with Quigley Road Connector. I would say it was largely about getting folks in and out of Stealyard Commons, but what do I know - I don't live down there and don't use it. So ahead they went and built this thing. Did they do it right? Should we trust that ODOT has their design skills in line to be trusted with more highway projects in our already highway mangled city?
Simplify. That's my suggestion. Stop building highways and start making the roads we currently have safer and smoother. Provide lighting and signage and slow the traffic when that is called for. My friend Martha, as we sat for hours studying the historic properties that will be lost so that we can build a one way bridge out of town that will cause greater congestion at Carnegie and Ontario (Oh, boy... adding a casino in there will make getting from east to west a living hell on wheels!), said that "the innerbelt should "JUST SLOW DOWN! Make it 50mph from E72nd to past W25th." Sarah Beimers formerly with the Cleveland Restoration Society who had worked on similar highway projects in Minnesota, suggested lights at on ramps to help merging traffic to allay congestion. "NO, NO, NO" said ODOT. We have to straighten deadman's curve, close ramps and build two bridges. I said, "let people who are en route from NY to Chicago (through traffic) go around the city via 271 and 480 at higher speeds. People who are commuting in Cleveland or coming to Cleveland can use the idiocy of I-90, 71 and 77 to the innerbelt." "NO, NO, NO" said ODOT. "We will show you how it is gonna be so much better. Just watch when we build this Quigley Road Connector. You'll see what wonders we can work."
Yes, ODOT, we see now what havoc your designs and concrete can work.
Now I have had this big picture idea from studying google maps that the Opportunity Corridor is really an intown truck route to get materials from the port to the highway. I have heard guys in these discussion saying that a truck carrying a wind turbine blade could not navigate Woodland Avenue. What? Is there gonna be someone building wind turbine blades on E93rd? Seems like the IX Center would be a better facility for that sort of large scale operation. Could it be 490 from E55th to E105 all the way to 90E? Or could it be that we will soon see Opportunity Corridor have two suggestions - one a highway to CCF and UCI and another running right up E55th to the port? Watch the allowed blighting. I think they call it forgetting. The Forgotten Triangle is where we "need" a new highway. Will E55 and E105 soon be dubbed forgotten corridors eager for new roads, more fumes and more noise?
Let's face it. Containers are not going to come to E55th whether they fill in the marina or not. It doesn't make sense for manufacturers to slow down shipping and with the new EPA efforts to clean up Great Lakes' air quality, will shippers be able to adjust to the new regulations by the time cranes are erected for containers at E55th in 20 years? All these things remain to be seen. So maybe it is time to get some maps, some signage, some lighting and make do with what we've got rather than continue with the "build it and they will come" methodology.
I'm no whiz kid, not even
I'm no whiz kid, not even close, but I kind of grasp the principal of a moving object, i.e. a "peterbilt" hauling thousands of tons of steel (aluminum), riding the rim of a 360 degree dime size circle, traveling at "X" rate of speed - the smallest shift in weight load, whether by wind, the vortex or other moving vehicles, bumps in the road, etc., is going to have an effect on a drivers control against centrifical force - add into that equasion having to maneuver through other moving objects traveling at "X" rates of speed and entering at "Y" sectors and you get what? - DISASTER
Susan, maybe all of us just
Susan, maybe all of us just need to move out of Cleveland and let it become an industrialized center with plenty of freeways not fit for residence. It does seem like it is getting to be that way already. Too bad some of us actually still live HERE. But, it seems that nobody that has any power cares about US.
Abandoning Cleveland?
Both my business and my home are in Ward 14. Lots of problems, but I love living here. No one is going to come along and rescue anybody. We need to actually do something to improve the situation. Less typing, more action.
What do you suggest? It
What do you suggest? It seems that the people with money will continue to do whatever they want to do and their decisions are often not in the best interest of the people that live here.
What do you suggest?
W14R, I don't know what skd would suggest but I will advise that you not let what you read here color your world too much. There are many problems and there is corruption, but there are also many good things happening in the City. We all use this site to point out the continuum of problems, and there is a fair amount of circling, and you need to fact check and not swallow it whole, so it gets discouraging when that is all that we see at times. As Jeff Buster pointed out a while back, realneo is a chalkboard. I hope that we us this site to move to solutions but that probably is a long time coming.
Thanks dwebb. I was
Thanks dwebb. I was beginning to think we all needed to start packing. lol
I plan to actually attend that meeting at Lutheran Hosp on Nov 10. Maybe that will be a good place to start making some needed improvements.
don't go packing
The posts that get people attention are those of hurts and harm done to people and it moves to the theoretical harm of the greater community. When it is a harm done to an individual like Frank it has huge ramifications is in life and the homes surrounded him, as I believe that this is really a part of the longer range land grab by the Cleveland Clinic, and if that is true, then more people and homes are in danger. Our justice system is also in danger for allowing this to happen. I prefer to fight back, one step at a time in a way that I can. I hope for help in this, and maybe some will help come.
Balance
Dweeb, you are so right. There are many good things happening. Reading this site can be depressing, discouraging. People need to be involved, not just on a web site, but attending meetings, forming groups to push issues, attending meetings (of which there are far to many). Pick one or two areas of interest. Become an expert. Look at Henry Senyak and all he does. Not many of us have h is skill set or available time, but we CAN make a difference.
For the first time in many years, we have a choice between two decent candidates for Council. That's progress.
skd, Many many people are
skd,
Many many people are involved and reading what is on the web site helps keep us all informed. A lot of us go to meetings and what one can't cover the other one does. You must not be aware of the number of hours of work it takes to do background and research work nor the many many hours spent working behind the scenes writing letter and making contacts.
It is true that while not every person has the time to nor the energy to do this non stop, every single effort counts and since we cannot be out on the job 24-7 communicating on the web site continues to encourage, inform and helps bring people together to work on some of these issues.
Jerleen's right
skd, it was all the stuff on this website that made me think more about the local elections that then lead to me acting as the volunteer coordinator on the Nagin for Ward 14 race. I am also putting together a fundraiser to stave off foreclosure on Frank's property (details forthcoming right after the election). I do have problems with the sarcasm and circular motions on this site, but I can say that aside from that, it has served as a catalyst for me. I am sure that others have also found this to be true. We just don't post all the details of the work, but rather an outline or an action that needs to be taken. I hope that you can appreciate the efforts put forth by various posters, regardless of your own position on a particular issue or candidate.
and silence
is complicity...
none of us are guilty of tHAt....
With the internet available
With the internet available now it is not really necessary to go to meetings to get information. Sometimes meetings are a place for other people to try to force their agenda onto people using sneaky little intimidation tactics to try to get people to agree with them. Using the internet to transmit the same information allows people to have time to think about what is being discussed, promoted, etc. and make an informed decision. I don't really like meetings. The ones I have been to over the years have been mostly unproductive. The use of sites such as this one allow people to get information that is needed to help them make decisions when voting It is wrong to assume that just because people don't attend meetings that they are not involved in what is happening in their communities. Getting and sharing information is what is important and the internet is a great way to do this. I am glad I found this site, even if what is written here is sometimes negative. It is good to hear the many different views about the same issues before voting for anything. Information is power.
sculpture in the round about
I confess that I drove the circle today so that I could see the sculpture but I had to watch other drivers so that all that I really see were the straggly plants around the sculpture. It is ironic that the city found Frank's yard to be "weedy" but we spent millions to showcase a sculpture that is surround by what? Are they weeds, flowers, other? What is a weed to you maybe a native plant to me, but the point is that the city took a bulldozer to a man's yard that was fine, but we have this at the end of the same street for thousands to look at everyday. Not on target with the dangers of the round about, but I just had to comment on that irony.
dwebb you are brave to drive
dwebb you are brave to drive that circle. Does anyone have a photo of that sculpture that they would be so kind to post here? I am curious now and I really don't want to endanger lives by attempting to drive that circle.
I agree with dwebb about Frank's home. Maybe we can stand in front of the sculpture with our picket signs and protest both the demolition of his home and the round-about at the same time.
You are on
We should organize that soon, as the first anniversary of the demolition is just about a month away. The anniversary in on a day that I work, but there is always the evening or we can make it a another day. We are supposed to have the El Nino effect this winter so maybe it will be mild weatherwise.
Do we need to do it in the
Do we need to do it in the daylight or is there enough light so we will be seen? Now that the time has changed along with the seasonal changes it will begin to get dark a lot earlier. When is the area used the most? If we are going to stand out there we might as well do it at a time when we will get the most viewers for our protest.
Any suggestions what to put on our signs?
franks
I will go by this week after dark to see how the light is at Frank's place. We need Jerleen to find us a safer place at the round about, maybe in the middle with the sculpture as no one has hit that yet (that I know of). Maybe the police can come stop traffic so that we can make it across safely. Maybe we can stick signs in the dirt around the sculpture; it is public space.
Okay. No sense to picket
Okay. No sense to picket if no one can see us. lol
Too bad we didn't do this earlier in the season when it stayed light out later.
picketers for Frank
We can invite people here to come up with short slogans for picket signs and maybe someone could even make a couple. Day glow or orange glow colors stand out in the dark.
How will be get to the
How will be get to the sculpture? Is it legal to walk across the road to get to it?
getting to the middle
Maybe we can pay a school crossing guard to help us.
LOL! ROFLMAO
LOL! ROFLMAO
Ladies and Gentlemen, The
Ladies and Gentlemen,
The sculpture photo is posted.
Jerleen where can I find
Jerleen where can I find it? Thanks.
Nevermind, I see it. Thank
Nevermind, I see it. Thank you.
I'll picket Egger/Goldberg
Although we will surely be arrested... and I really wonder whether they even work in Cleveland...
Disrupt IT
tight-fisted whiners
Jeff - are you for real?
these are just a bunch of tight-fisted whiners that would prefer living their lives in a version of Lord of the Flies...
these are the greedy little fucks that used to have tantrums when they didn't get the "MOST" from the pinata and they would throw a pouty baby tantrum...
did you read their signs??? heLLo???
yes dbra - wait til I post the rest of the signs
Hello drba,
I took close up images of many of the signs and will post those here as comments in the next day or two when time permits. best, jeffb
signs that confuse
The guy in the center of the photo is carrying a sign that says, "Drs. Brown, Voinovich & Fudge: We the people pay the bill."
I'll say, YES WE DO! And the bill is too high. I had an argument with a wool hat from south Alabama a year or so ago way down yonder in the backwoods of North Florida. He asked why he should be helping to pay for somebody else's medical care - I said, you already are dude, we're just trying to even it out so folks don't have to get so sick waiting to get tended when the costs are sky high. I don't think that guy had ever thought about how freaking pricey his health insurance is - his employer probably picks it up for him.
Maybe it needs to be
Maybe it needs to be presented to them on a personal level. Ask these people if they would want to have health care if they lost their jobs and their benefits. Or another question might be to ask them if they want to be exposed to curable illnesses that people could not receive care for because they have no access to health care. It makes no sense to me to not want everyone to have health care. Afterall we do share the earth. Don't we want the people that share it with us to be healthy? I am surprised that there is no counter picketers that are for the public option.