FDA To Get Massive Quarantine Powers - Martial Law & Food Control In One Insane Bill - HR 2749

Submitted by Quest-News-Serv... on Sun, 07/12/2009 - 01:22.



FDA To Get Massive Quarantine Powers

Not what the American people ordered – HR 2749, martial law and the enslavement of their farmers

By The Writers’ Collective
HR 2749 is a strange bill in many ways.  While the other “food safety” bills have been around since winter, allowing for much public discussion on the internet, HR 2749 has only suddenly appeared.  It is a mutant conglomeration of the worst of the other bills, with the addition of one very original part – martial law.
When it was a draft, it was Waxman’s bill.  But once given a number, it became Dingel’s who already had a “food safety” bill, HR 759.  So Waxman got none and Dingel got two.  
(Was this because Waxman, being Jewish, was a hideous choice to introduce a bill with Codex in it –
designed by the Nazi pharmaceutical companies that funded Hitler, provided the gas for the gas chambers, experimented on prisoners with vaccines – and is expected to kill millions?) 
* HR 2749 would give FDA the power to order a quarantine of a geographic area, including “prohibiting or restricting the movement of food or of any vehicle being used or that has been used to transport or hold such food within the geographic area.”  
[This - "that has been used to transport or hold such food" - would mean all cars that have ever brought groceries home or any pickup someone has eaten take-out in, so this means ALL TRANSPORTATION can be shut down under this.  This is using food as a cover for martial law.]  
Under this provision, farmers markets and local food sources could be shut down, even if they are not the source of the contamination.  The agency can halt all movement of all food in a geographic area.  
[This is also a means of total control over the population under the cover of food, and at any time.] See this DailyKos entry.

The bill is unusual, too, because slow as it was to appear. The little bugger of bill has made up for it since.  It got a number on June 10, went to committee on June 17, passed instantly, and is headed for a vote on the floor of the House.   
The first Patriot Act was passed using fear of terrorism. This Patriot Act is more coy, hiding under a cloak of “food safety” and but also using fear –
fear of food contamination.  Evidently, Americans are supposed to be so frightened by the slightest possibility of a terrorist or of E-coli, they would trade away all their precious, hard fought freedoms for the promise of safety.  Or at least, that is what the trade-off has become.  “Terrorism” and “contamination” are great bugaboos used to open doors to an end to the US Constitution. 
 That is exactly what we are left with after those who wrote HR 2749 are done.  
Who did write these bills?  It seems Monsanto had not only a hand, but a “defining” influence. http://farmwars.info/?p=594
This redefining of reality is what seems to be underlying all the loss of freedom.  Normal and free are disappearing into the maw of corporate definitions of reality. See this Yup Farming piece
So, we begin with contaminated food from filthy corporate processors and concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs).
  And what do we end up with after that reality is ground up by corporate legal hands?  Changes in the definition of risk so that natural things are treated as dangerous and toxic things are untouched, such that: 
  • Healthy, normal farms are taken over by government as though they were run by criminals and contaminated corporate slaughterhouses are untouched;
  • The necessary freedom of individuals to live and grow food and be left alone are somehow suddenly destroyed, though they were never the source of any food contamination issue; and such that
  • The profit and control and power of corporations which were absolutely the source of the increasingly terrible food, is somehow suddenly vastly increased.  
Thanks to corporate control over reality, our wanting to clean up corporate processors and feedlots and CAFOS and end up with farmers’ markets and local farms and organic food has become the industrialization and potential destruction of every healthy part of the food system and the triumph of the most contaminated and toxic part.  And in the non-bargain, we lost all freedoms and they took all control.  And “all” is not a hyperbole here, for one need only look at another provision of HR 2749 to feel how insane, how distant from all we ever wanted. 
* HR 2749 would empower FDA to regulate how crops are raised and harvested.  It puts the federal government right on the farm, dictating to our farmers.  
[What is missing in pointing out this astounding control, is that it opens the door to CODEX and WTO "good farming practices" will include the elimination of organic farming by eliminating manure, mandating GMO animal feed, imposing animal drugs, and ordering applications of petrochemical fertilizers and pesticides.  Farmers, thus, will be locked not only into the industrialization of once normal and organic farms but into the forced purchase of industry's products. 
 They will be slaves on the land, doing the work they are ordered to do - against their own best wisdom -
and paying out to industry against their will.  There will be no way to be frugal, to grow one's own grain to feed the animals, to raise healthy animals without GMO grains or drugs, to work with nature at all.  Grassfed cattle and poultry and hogs will be finished.  So, it needs to be made clear where control will take us.  And weren't these the "rumors on the internet" that were dismissed but are clearly the case?]  See this DailyKos entry.
When we wanted not to get E-coli in processed meat, did we intend to put our farmers into corporate servitude?  Did we plan to have our own lives straight-jacketed by a million new controls over our own gardens, our own desire to grow food, our own plans to start small businesses, our own dreams to have a small piece of land and farm ourselves?  Who has the audacity to take our needs and grotesquely bastardize them in these ways, while giving the destruction and totalitarian control the sham name of “food safety”?   
We wanted good food.  We never wanted to trap our farmers into an industrial prison on their own land, afraid moment to moment of not fulfilling some monstrous set of instructions that never end –
rules the farmers loathe, rules that have not only nothing to do with real farming but which are antithetical to it.  Why have we ended up with HR 2749, an intense corporate nightmare around the most central and necessary aspects of a free country and of free human beings – farming and food?
USDA wiretap web
American farming needs to be relieved of the burdens it has been under, not finished off by its corporate competition.  It needs freedom to flourish again.  Obviously –
and Congress people who would think to vote for such absurdities, take note – the imposition of surveillance, monitoring, warrantless entry, taking of all records, licensing, fees, Codex and NAIS, in addition to massive penalties and prison terms
(all without judicial review over even appropriateness and validity), are not how one thanks American farmers for holding together the only working part of our food system.  See Literal Enslavement by Linn Cohen-Cole.
HR 2749 is the most vicious and insane bill one could imagine. 
 Who treats our farmers in this way?  Who believes that such police measures can provide for the rebirth of farming and the return of healthy food?  Who wrote this bill that trashes the freedom of all our lives?  HR 2749 was not what we ordered and it should be sent back the bowels of hell it came from.  
HR 2749 is both insane and cruel.  And the deceptiveness of hiding a Patriot Act in it and the brutal rush to slip it through Congress are ANTI-democratic.  
Go here to tell Congress, “No.” http://www.ftcldf.org/petitions/pnum993.php


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Read it your self…stop posting other peoples crap.




Section 203 of that Bill requires a country of origin label.

Section 205 requires registration of commercial importers of food.

It also charges fees…that’s good in my opinion.

Sec 133 allow for quarantine in the event of a serious threat breaks out.

Sec 134 allows for fines up to half million for violating that.

I can’t find fault in the bill it looks like responsible legislation,

Read it your self…stop posting other peoples crap.


your links suck, Oengus...

 Did you try them yourself? Because if you follow your link to the contents of the bill, you'll find you can not read it in toto. To read any section of the bill, you have to keep going back to the bill outline and then it times out and you lose the link entirely, so actually you have to go back to the RealNEO link and redo it all.

Your links suck, Oengus.

I'm sure fees are always good in your opinion, because MONEY IS YOUR GOD and yes there are snippets of the bill that are good - but did YOU read it? Its a nightmare.

It interferes with separation of powers - a basic tenet of our democracy by  significantly diminishing judicial restraints on the FDA. (translate - the actions of the FDA will not be subject to review by the courts, such as... say... the Supreme Court). But then, why should the Supreme Court have influence in the decisions of our administrative offices? The Supreme Court is driven by such lofty ideals as integrity, individuality and justice and that certainly doesn't compat with the ideals of our contemporary administrative systems, because MONEY IS THEIR GOD.

The ridiculous regime control would extend to local food systems, including backyard farmers, NOT just the corporate capitalist food industry that produces shit you should not put in your mouth, let alone digest into your body; they produce shit instead of healthy sustanance, because MONEY IS THEIR GOD.

H.R. 2749 not only advocates WTO "good farming practises", if mandates them, grossly increasing the cost of food production while raping and killing our earth with its sick emmissions of petro-chemicals, GMO feed and seed and animal pharmaceuticals, NOT so as to improve the quality of our food while protecting the balance of our earth, but to ensure their greatest profit, because MONEY IS THEIR GOD.

If you want to read a conservative discussion of the bill, go here.

Thank you, Quest, for bringing this to our attention. I will be sure to pass it on.

Trying to protect us.

Mandating good food production is a bad thing?

You can always read into legislation, and you can allow other to do it for you as well.

Best practice is to attempt that on your own, if you are intelligent and capable of comprehension you can actually defend your own singular interpretation.

That is about the power of one and then conversely about people that share one brain. Seeking the opinions of other needs to be done with some level of intellect or it could just be spreading around crap.





so, if it's not Marxist, its right?

 your lack of depth and obvious inability to comprehend what you are reading and extrapolate that onto potential situations is astounding, Oengus.

Its nOt about simply "mandating good food production" and it nOt about "reading into" anything. Your dumbing down attitude is the same attitude responsible for this country swallowing the corrupt ideology behind the Patriot Act.

And could you plEAse try to pay attention to syntax? No wonder you utterly fail to comprehend this issue.

think it won't happen? it already did...

 Ohio AG Dept. & State’s Top Cop Sued for Food Co-Op Raid

By Sarah Foster

Article from newswithviews.com
It’s been over a month since a team of 10, heavily armed sheriff deputies, at the behest of county and state agencies, conducted an aggressive mid-day, search-and-seize raid of the home of John and Jacqueline Stowers, owners of an organic food co-op called Manna Storehouse in LaGrange, Ohio -- and tore their world apart. 
The couple has not yet been charged with a crime, but they don’t have to wait to become defendants in a trial -- they’re the plaintiffs in a court action launched by two advocacy groups on their behalf....

“The use of these police-state tactics on a peaceful family is simply unacceptable,” said Buckeye Institute President, David Hansen, in a news release announcing the lawsuit. “Officers rushed into the Stowers’ home with guns drawn and held the family – including 10 young children – captive for six hours. This outrageous case of bureaucratic overreach must be addressed.”...

John Stowers, 56, and his wife Jacqueline, 47, live in a quiet rural community 24 miles southwest of Cleveland. Seven of the Stowers’ eight children are still at home and their daughter-in-law Katie Stowers, 24, lives there with her three small children....The Stowerses distribute foodstuffs their members have ordered: flour, sugar, grass-fed beef and lamb [packaged and frozen at the butcher], eggs from pastured chickens, butter, cheese, organic honey and maple syrup, and other natural foods....

On Dec. 1, sheriff deputies made an unannounced “haphazard entry” into the Stowers’ home, “with guns drawn, as other officers surrounded the property, with guns drawn.” Determined to prove ongoing illegalities, agents from the Lorain County Health District and ODA searched not only the storehouse but “the Stowers’ entire personal residence and their entire 26-acre property,” confiscating computers, cell phones, invoices and other business records – and a year’s supply of the family’s food.

Full story here.

And if you are to follow your own advice ::: if your (sic) intelligent and capable of comprehension you can actually defend your own singular interpretation.::::

then stop listening to the news, reading the newspapers and magazines and burn your history books. 

As the bill is; it holds the


As the bill is; it holds the registration and then refunds it unless action that incurs expense are incurred. (section 743)

So you would be held accountable for what you are doing and if you follow standard guidelines of safe practices then no cost would be incurred.

Its odd and makes you wonder if they would keep requiring the fees, then basically you never get the funds backs. They really have no idea how much it would cost so they leave it open, from 2011-2014?

It is a Bill and in committee, go through it line by line and if there is something that concerns you then highlight that and send it to your representative. Then copy those on the committee, the sponsor and co-sponsors.

Yeah the urban chicken farmer could be affected. If an inspection is called for then you under the bill as it is would get charged for that against your registration fee.

I can’t say that if an urban agricultural sector is encouraged that it should be left unaccountable, not when it comes to live stock in particular.

There are all sorts of nasty food born problems, the FDA is not focusing on the Urban Agrarian. However if that takes off then keeping track of multiple providers is more costly then inspecting a single larger one.

This bill is attempting to identify all food sources and also those crossing national borders.

You could logically become part of the coop and then the fee could be just for the coop. That should or could be spelled out in the Bill. Then the responsibility for correct procedures and practices done and held accountable through the Coop.

Nothing about this Bill addresses what you do for yourself, it is about introducing food into the market and then keeping track of that, and addresses also what to do in the event of contamination.


I say register all the parcels of land, then this gets taken care of in the process. If a parcel is producing, distributing/wholesaling, processing/packaging it gets registered.

Washington is all freaked out, they look at our food distribution and go off the deep end, they can and should look at a national linked system for data. This is the land and what happens on it, if can be associated with a larger entity or not.




ok - first off -


I don't know if you annoy everyone else like you ANNOY me, but try using the phrase "you can" or "why don't you". It seems beyond you to consider the option of suggesting to people, rather than telling them what to do, but I HIGHly recommend it. People might like you better AND be more responsive to the arguments you make.

I said nothing about the fees, except to comment on your analogy fees=good. I could give a rat's ass about the fees (of course its the fIRSt thing you mention).

Its about disenfranchising grass roots local food movements.

Its about further increasing administrative power, without review. Did you study basic history? Do you know the reason and importance of separation of powers and checks and balances?

Its about government overreaching. It gives government inordinant power to interfere with private daily life. It does little to nothing to rein in the out of control food industries (like Monsanto - which is probably why they are enthusiastically lobbying for it). 

It is about giving the FDA the power to order a quarantine of a geographic area.

it is about empowering the FDA to make random warrantless searches of the business records of small farmers and local food producers, without any evidence whatsoever that there has been a violation.

It is about empowering the FDA to regulate how crops are raised and harvested.

And it is being rushed through the process - out of committee in a few short weeks.

Most importantly, HR 2947 fails to regulate the out of control food production industry. It does not address the real problems that cause the industrial food system and food imports to poison our food systems and endanger our health.

And again - your dumbing down attitude is the same attitude responsible for this country swallowing the corrupt ideology behind the Patriot Act.


It's a crazy piece of

It's a crazy piece of legislation, way over the top, they actually call for registration of all restaurants.

It is odd to say the least, the more I go through it.

The Bill is HR2749 and considered in committee, you posted HR 2947 that’s in committee as well.

its not my fault if I am annoying you...its just a bonus. 


Do not tell me what to

Do not tell me what to think, that is exactly what I think every time I read biased article, also what caused me to comment on the post in the first place.

The Bill is online and allows for comments and responses.

Bills can also go back to committee, then has to go through both houses the president can also stop it.

So what is good form calling the bill martial law food control and posting it with a police emblem?

Apposed to just reading it and then commenting on it…boring apposed to sensational.

If it is being affected by the lobbies, then that would come through the sponsors, that being those that crafted it. It’s best form to see if those links in fact exist before assuming they do right out of the gate.

I am sure that the use of the word quarantine is related to food distribution, not people. Then again the Bubonic Plague might justify that?

You have to have a licence

You have to have a licence to sell food, 

This is a Link to the search warrant issued to the case Debra linked to.

It also has the communication between the parties.  



those pesky contractual obligations

 Those pesky contractual obligations of living in the country where one uses the roads, postal system, water - oh just to name a few of things necessary to run any business (i.e. make money!)

You got to pay to play - or so I've heard.

Thanks for posting the link so we reading at REALNEO might know some of the real back story.




<meta name="description" content="Manna Storehouse is an organic food co-op and retail store.  It is run by John & Jackie Stowers and their children.">
<meta name="keywords" content="manna storehouse, lagrange, ohio, stowers, family, organic, food, organic food">

oops they need to check their source code...it says they are a retailer.  


makes you wonder why they

makes you wonder why they just can't licence food coops?  


then you have this: http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~news/story.php?id=2027



Okay - so if there is a question as to how distribution of product is occurring might that explain the search warrant?

Kinda like the feds invading Jimmi's house a year ago.  No indictment yet, but that might mean:

1.  it is still coming OR

2.  maybe the search and seizure showed there was no crime.

To me the arguments being made on behalf of the Manna Storehouse here, sound much like the ones being postured by our local politicians.


If you have any insight Oengus?


health concerns


Based on the story above (one may have to cut and paste to their browser of they wish to view), i guess the martyrs will start lining up for their victimization.

Yes there are contractual obligations between me and the society i live in that require me to abide by health and safety regulations if i am going to sell a consumable product to make a profit.  Reasonable imho.  

I just don't think it useful to go back to the dark ages and allow "buyer beware" to become that status quo for buying food.  We'd come so far.

One's choice in livelihood ought not cost others their health or life.  Seems reasonable.

But I guess that ole "greedy capitalistic nature" is being co-opted by the self proclaimed greenies.  That could be called irony and/or hypocrisy. 



Something for a judge to decide?

Something for a judge to decide? Something that could have been avoided?

And then a matter of reviewing,




If Manna did not believe they were in violation of the law then they needed to be open to the inspection. It seems that a coop is exempt from inspections and licenses, but with limitations, Manna House’s request for a copy of the code and while already selling food was a mistake, it brought it all upon them.






thanks Oengus - you are correct

Makes sense.

Had Manna Storehouse researched prior to beginning to sell for profit, they would not be viewed now as tipping their hand by asking when they did.

Perhaps this will be an instance of better to ask forgiveness than permission.

You are correct that this is for a judge to decide, if it gets that far.  No charges thus far if the posts here accurate and my reading of them is too. 

All we are doing here is gadding about with our own speculations.  Fun yes, but not real substantive.




 I need say nothing more...

well here it comes

This article in the San Fransisco Chronicle, Crops, ponds destroyed in quest for food safety tells of measures to come:

An Amish farmer in Ohio who uses horses to plow his fields could find himself caught in a net aimed 2,000 miles away at a feral pig in San Benito County. While he may pick, pack and sell his greens in one day because he does not refrigerate, the bagged lettuce trucked from Salinas with a 17-day shelf life may be considered safer.

The leafy-green agreement is based on available science, but it is just a jumping-off point.

Large produce buyers have compiled secret "super metrics" that go much further. Farmers must follow them if they expect to sell their crops. These can include vast bare-dirt buffers, elimination of wildlife, and strict rules on water sources. To enforce these rules, retail buyers have sent forth armies of food-safety auditors, many of them trained in indoor processing plants, to inspect fields.

And right here at home: Farmers market vendors getting shut down by Cuyahoga County health inspectors for improper refrigeration of meat and dairy products

Meanwhile, Obama uses the term "better seeds" in G8 talks about food sovereignty and global hunger. Fer Chrissakes - biopiracy does seem to be driving this indirectly or directly.

All That Glitters is Not Gold: Biotechnology Has Failed Us, So Why Promote It Abroad?

It is important to recognize three separate issues here - food security, food saftey and food sovereignty. So far we're confused about all three and while we're confused (shell game) is when they take the plate away. Hold on this is gonna  be a wild ride. Doctors will make money. So Dr. Sanjeev Sharma suggests exercise and better food. He sounds like they just woke him up. He doesn't seem to see the problem of urban food deserts and processed foods - the 3,000 mile ceasar salad.

Cleveland Clinic now has a farmer's market, and they offered to buy any produce that was not sold to insure that farmers can sell what they have harvested for the market. CCF foodservice said they could use it in their kitchens for patients. Is it happening? Uh... no.

As I keep saying - make 'em sick - make 'em well. That makes money for doctors. Don't we subsidize them enough?

It could soon be a "grow your own" world. Agribusiness has long been a weapon (see India during Johnson adminsitration). If you can't "bomb them back to the stone age" (General Curtis LeMay), you can starve them. Great!

and its OK for authorities to train guns on your children

 because they interpret an ambiguous law different than you do, but you thought it was being handled through proper administrative channels.

Its also apparently OK for some people for the authorities to confiscate all your expensive computer equipment and your food supply for an entire year,  because they interpret an ambiguous law different than you do, but you thought it was being handled through proper administrative channels.

What is shocking to me is how easily some people give up their personal rights and integrity. Some call them spineless sell-outs. I say I'll know who to watch out for as we slide faster into facism.

Nice info, Susan. I don't think people realize how precarious our society is right now and how fundamentally inportant our food supply systems are, particularly our local supplies. Oh, and thank you for working so hard to grow healthy for the rest of us - I think of you often when I'm out working in my yards/gardens! I think we had some of your onions in our City Fresh shares? maybe?

Feeding of antibiotics is

Feeding of antibiotics is generating resistant bacteria? That will show up in the manure and then could get on the produce?

So if you are providing fresh then you have to assure that never happens, that manure is properly composted if used at all.

Who do you trust more, that’s a hard question to answer, the more people involved the safer? The bigger the production and distribution the higher the risk?

So as you create an urban network can you ask the researchers at the clinic to review your theory?

Our would that be dUmb?

One of problems with public health service and that is being addressed in the national health bill is that of no money in Public Health, so it does not get the brightest.

The need is for Smarter people in Public Health services?

The COOP and the Public Health have to work hand in hand, they are intertwined or should be and not be at odds. I am not a cheerleader but they have to be on the same team, its all a matter of health.

COOP's that are offering a healthy alternative and then Public Health there to insure that.

A representative from the department of agriculture for the state in there as well. Regionally and in districts with good honest hard working people keeping track. Then working under real bright and knowledgeable people, that are not political!






once again

 you deflect the subject.

we aren't discussing anitbiotics, Oengus, we are discussing the abuse of police power in this country and the proposal to further extend it, in a direction that seeks to stop the burgeoning local foods movement, at the behest of corporate food industry.

get smart, big boy.

No I am not

No I am not, Susans post is about that, and the issues going on in Cali. 

The spinach problem, and the results of the investigation and the outcome.   

The legislation; is public health legislation, and they are atempting to link it to national health care.    




I am fine with you and you being a libertarian, I lean to that side, but I struggle with the polarity of all of this.


I am feeling like a guest that refused to leave….I usually bail when it gets to this level, but its a big issue, this one. I am not attempting to detract, I am attempting to be the centrist. In the world we live in not the one I imagine.


no its not

its not the issue.

the issue is the increasing overbreadth of our military/police power, and its spread into the new local foods movement, Oengus. The local foods movement generally does not use antibiotics. That is the corporate food industry. Industry use has helped spawn and fuel the local food movement.

Corporate food establishment + legislative control - judicial oversight + military/police enforcement = disenfranchisement of local food and increased population dependence on corporate food industry.

There is no room for centrism in that equation.

AGAIN, the bill is way overbroad. It does not address the true source of the problems arising from the corporate food industry. It will bring about the above equation.

You made an analogy

You made an analogy to the Patriot Act…would it surprise you that I got that instantly.

Some things cannot be prevented, attempting to can bring about whole new sets of problems.

The issue of people that say; ‘they should have prevented that” and then those same individuals not being able to come up with a pragmatic viable way to prevent that. That is due to it being something inherently that which cannot be prevented.

and that is that.

I am a sort of libertarian, or at least that’s the best box I can fit into, but I do not like boxes, I tend to think outside of them.

The issue of inadvertently creating antibiotic resistant bacteria in manure is alarming. That compounded with it being considered by many as an organic alternative to synthetic fertilizers. The danger in the use of antibiotic is not necessarily that direct. Lost in the see of externalities and sensationalism?

There is an article in USA Today about that, find that if you interested it cover what Susan posted. It talks about it but it may require some extrapolation…I am not sure as I do that sometimes automatically. That’s why I have been asked millions of time…“read this, as I want to see what you get out of it”.

I could go through the law with a sharpie and a highlighter, but that is what we pay our congressionalist to do. If you do that for them, you being anyone, they may love you for that. That’s because they have literally reams of legislation passing by them. But the love would be related to that of how good of job you do on that for them… a comprehensive review. We could write volumes on this, I say go for it, the hit count is nearly 500.

miss a day miss a lot

just like the Plain Dealer here it is 

Oengus - NOT YOU TOO!!!

>>That’s why I have been asked millions of time…“read this, as I want to see what you get out of it”.<<

granted the "asked a million times" is not the same level of drama as the statement about how someone could be murdered here and that won't silence the truth.

thank you Oengus - it occurred to me after my last post (which posted twice - sorry folks - though i guess here apologies are simply viewed as insincere - guess i'll never figure out the rules to posting here.) but Oengus - i though that I ought to have apologized for cutting and pasting your comments so much as on some level that may be viewed as impolite (laughed at your "all you do is cut and paste" post of a few days back - nother thread i believe) - BUT i have agreed wholeheartedly with your "trying to keep it centrist" tone and also that "sensationalizing" takes away from credibility.

which is a shame as some if the sensationalistic/got to take it all personal posters have valid points within their cacophony.


well Oengus stated about this being an important issue  - even if some of us posting are unwelcome -

i've gone to these "Farmers Markets."  like the one at Shaker Square.  have yet to buy anything.  i see dairy products out in the sun - higher prices for products that i need to research their seller to confirm for my own peace of mind that the food is what it is purported to be,  i think consumer research is a matter of personal responsibility.

and yes i buy from (i guess based on tone at realneo ) from evil "corporate - eek neon sign" stores like Dave's and such cause they will be there next week and they have been dependable to sell me products all these years and the food doesn't make me sick.

i have had some bogus food from stands at the westside market that has gotten me sick as it was seemingly mishandled.

on any given day (here at Realneo) over the years i see about maybe 20 people post consistently.  but that twenty changes save for a smaller core group. 

and the sort of simplistic - i trust Dave's cause i know i can go there tomorrow and talk to the manager about what i bought today, logic is part of what the "high ideals" be espoused here about Farmer's Markets, local farming, all gov't evil, so some of us ought to be exempt from all laws arguments - are going to bump up against the real world where folks simply want to be able to to go back to the store if there is a problem.

and for all the high ideals that will continue to be tossed here and in other rooms like it i visit i will continue to be amused by the human animal that calls for change but seems to totally miss the pragmatics to it.

sensationalization is more fun i guess.  

and as some here (not just this poster) have attempted to point out - that kneejerk - sensationalistic tone - takes away from the credibility of what otherwise may be some valid points.

this got long, i will not have time to fully reread for full edit.  checking typos - missed words -  but look forward to more misinterpretation and drama.

one thing these types of blogs are always good for.

thank you for not disappointing.



this blog would be a more sensation-less venue for you.

None of this was fun, it was

None of this was fun, it was all unsettling.  

I would love to live in world without chemical on or in my food, but wonder if the alternative is a limited selection?  

The manger of the grocery store does not take it personal when you return the rotten product.  

The small vendor/supplier may take more pride, but thats not hard and fast, and the bigger it gets it all will complete a full circle.   A bigger stand more product, joining together... 

The big system has become very hightech and they really are not taking any of it personal are they?   The CEO does not get offended when 100 get sick, they see it only as a number or a liablity.   

That is the point, what I get out of it, the BIll spells out accountablity and liablity to the big guy and some say the little guy will get kicked out.   I say check that and then Debra says "do not tell me what to do"  I was speaking to a larger audience.   

I did not come here to make friends.    

horses die easier than this...


then go back to killing

then go back to killing them. 


 as my grandmother would say....

Scottish? Leighton is


Leighton is Scottish isn't it? 

When I was young….every so often comments would get made about by coloration; brown hair and blue eyes. Asking who I got it from, mom or dad. Neither I would say, occasionally it would be a woman and with the same coloration. That’s about wanting the seed, the recessive combination with the recessive combination produces a high probability of the same.

My mother is a passive aggressive, father picked her because, as he put it, she would not give him too much crap.

BJ is your real name Jean? Or is it Gene?

My boss said he is getting weird phone calls, said he is sure it has to do with me. He said something to do with me being on the internet. He said you pissed of somebody…who do you think it is. I laughed and said that could be anyone. Some times all you have to do is enter the room and it pisses some people off.


Shhh…you do not have to say another word is not the same as… No, seriously shut up.

I’ll let you done when I am done, hold on I am almost finished, just a few more minutes, hold on the end is coming…

don't like antibiotics in food

  >>BJ is your real name Jean? Or is it Gene?<<

Does my name matter at all?  I do not care who anyone is here, am interested in content.   Find name calling and exaggerations/hyperbole detract from valid points.   

Chemicals in food - slippery slope.  I don't like it.  But how do I the consumer KNOW that what I buy at a Farmer's Market isn't a bait and switch anyhow?   Their personal pride?  Only corporations are dishonest?   Farmer's Markets are disinterested in profit, therefore incapable of greed?

What started out as modifying strains of vegetation made farms more productive BUT when was the tipping point reached?   

Can we go back?

Penicillin was great, but then we get antibiotic resistant venereal disease.  

Thanks for the heads up of weird calls at work, though perhaps you're teasing.  (there is the lack of facial expression and voice inflection online)

During an odd volley here 6 months ago my car got vandalized.  Really never considered that anyone here would go that far.  Figured it unrelated, STILL CONSIDER IT UNRELATED, but guess the suggestion of weird calls at work gives me pause . . . and those seemingly obsessed over "who I am."

Hope you don't get in trouble at work.  I cannot post during the day at this point.  Earning a living supercedes any "benefit" in the idea exchange here.

Take Care.


thanks Oengus -

 and why the suggestion of training guns in children?

kinda sick.


IF you bother to READ - jean

 IF you BOTHER to read the accounts of the Manna Storehouse incident -

that you are extensively commenting on, above-

you will read that one of the more disturbing details was the fact the police stormed their home, rounded everyone (including their small children) into one room and kept them at gun point for 8 hours. There are two stories to that - the families say there were several semi-automatic weapons trained on themselves and their children, the police said they only used a single rifle (seems implausible).

Why do you jump in and start commenting on something when you quite obviously have no idea what you are tlaking about? It wouldn't be some ridiculously stale personal issue, would it?


I did read the article(s) - there was nothing about training guns on "our children" it was their children.  

And as acknowledged there are two versions as reported here  (who knows how many other versions may exist)


Didn't Oengus post something recently about sensationalizing detracting from one's factual points?

oh well, facts are facts and the rest is opinion.


and as Oengus so eloquently stated:


"I am feeling like a guest that refused to leave….I usually bail when it gets to this level, but its a big issue, this one. I am not attempting to detract, I am attempting to be the centrist. In the world we live in not the one I imagine."


Can't see where sensationalizing by personalizing the facts (changing their story to "our story") assists understanding.  Not my story, I wasn't there.  And I will not cheapen someone's else's story by glibly attempting to make it mine.

However if this is your family and it is personal to you, then apologies for not having gotten that from what I read here in the posts and the links.

Would suck to live through that and I am sorry if you did. 




I did read the article(s) - there was nothing about training guns on "our children" it was their children.  

And as acknowledged there are two versions as reported here  (who knows how many other versions may exist)


Didn't Oengus post something recently about sensationalizing detracting from one's factual points?

oh well, facts are facts and the rest is opinion.


and as Oengus so eloquently stated:


"I am feeling like a guest that refused to leave….I usually bail when it gets to this level, but its a big issue, this one. I am not attempting to detract, I am attempting to be the centrist. In the world we live in not the one I imagine."


Can't see where sensationalizing by personalizing the facts (changing their story to "our story") assists understanding.  Not my story, I wasn't there.  And I will not cheapen someone's else's story by glibly attempting to make it mine.

However if this is your family and it is personal to you, then apologies for not having gotten that from what I read here in the posts and the links.

Would suck to live through that and I am sorry if you did. 



DIS ingenuity

your disingenuity proves my point.