On a Great Lakes Aquarium

Submitted by lmcshane on Sun, 09/13/2009 - 08:04.

If Jackson's stodges on Cleveland City Council go along with Jacob's aquarium scheme, Cleveland will once again allow itself to be used by a developer to further our national image as a second-rate, amateur town--a joke.

Do I need to point out that we have polluted Lake Erie and our Great Lakes to the point that native animal and plant communities no longer exist?  So, what are we going to feature at this Great Lakes Aquarium?  Sheepshead and carp?

If Jackson has two million dollars to throw around--use it to encourage real economic recovery through alternative energy development and clean water technology, not this fish story.

the most embarrassing part -

 its the SAME fricking "developers" over and over and over again - is this welfare or what????

   Its not the same


 Its not the same developer, Jacob has not done anything in the city for along time. Its not the Aquarium that is a bad idea, it's the city having to pay $2M to get it to happen that really is hard to take.

The actual people that will but it together are impressive, they have built and operate aquariums all around the world. You may not appreciate the Jacob s group you can even hate them , but you cannot say that anything they developed in the city is second rate, actually you can but it would be an inaccurate assessment. Say what you will about them, but they do it right.

Its risky in that people may go and then just stop going, it take constant marketing and promotion, it takes constant changes to displays and programs and it has to bring classrooms to the location. Is it because American have all attentions spans of flees?

It does not matter if you will go there, unless you plan to go there to protest? Most people will go there for a visit to check it out, many will see that as a place to take friend from out of town that visits.

Aquariums have universal appeal, the can and should do an exhibit of lake species and include currently environmental concerns and initiatives.

The size of 123,000 square feet is larger than the many of the aquariums, it makes me wonder if the PD has that number correct?



Since the money has already been spent to restore it, it was for those that are not form this area an abandoned structure, the Jacobs did that and did a very nice job. I really doubt that the developers in vogue today would have had the original windows replicated. It is not second rate, it is first rate all the way. The aquarium will not be embarrassing it will more than likely be a frickin gems and draw lots of visitors.

Ariel view of the Power House.










Of all the location these aquariums have been built and the comparable attendances of those, I do not think the 400,000 estimated visitors a year is that unrealistic.

The flats had issue with attracting families and was one of the reasons it all went away, it became a haven for punch happy drunks.

The power house is not small and the plan is relocate what is inside of it currently.

its not quite accurate

 here's the list (note - I'm telling myself - ignore the troll - as I wrote this):

57-story Key Center on Public Square

the Galleria at Erieview

Cleveland Marriott at Key Center, McDonald Investment Center at 800 Superior Ave., Westgate Mall in Fairview Park, Belden Village Mall in Canton, Midway Mall in Elyria, SouthPark Center in Strongsville and the Chagrin Highlands office and research park in Beachwood.

I've not the time nor inclination to total the amount of public money they received to SUBSIDIZE (oooh - socialism!) any of these, but someone else feel free.

That you so obviously GLOSS OVER the fact our city is a bottom rung in terms of poverty speaks for itself. We really DO NOT need an aquarium and we sure as fuck don't need to give OUR public dollars to pay for it.




"Jacob (sic) has not done anything in the city for along time"

Oengus - you got that right!

Freetimes Volume 11, Issue 32
Published December 3rd, 2003

After The Rust : Michael Gill : What's Next For The Coast Guard Station?

The city of Cleveland lacks money and has no plans for building, but it could be a future municipal gift

by Michael Gill

Jacobs has not done anything for Cleveland for a long time.

Sheepshead and carp... good one Laura!


Yep, the flats had a lot of

Yep, the flats had a lot of potential.  I think what ruined it was that people did not feel safe there as well as the fact that it was definately not family friendly.  Maybe some day...

Anytime you hear a name like

Anytime you hear a name like "jacobs", "wolstein", "Ratner", "Miller" theres some politician doing a favor like a 3-and-out pass in a  browns game...hoping he/she will get their constituents jacked on something for 3-4 yrs...so they can get reelected before the deal goes bad.

hey dweller1

you nailed it...


i'd like to think that someday in this town some elected official will stand in front of all of these mega-developers and quote Dog Day Afternoon- "We like to get kissed when we get screwed..." 

PD canned my aquarium editorial

  I guess posting here and at the Plain Dealer violated some fine print that I missed somewhere...dead fish still stink.

Nevermind...I found it, but now it is attributed to someone named gmillner?!

The first article in the

The first article in the PD has the aquarium at 55,000 sq ft, June 17 2009

This most recent article has it at 123,000 sq ft.

which is it?  

Marinescape the company that will design and operate the aquarium has not yet listed Cleveland on its current project list.  




Did the Aquarium funding pass in council vote?

  Cleveland City Council does not vote at the council meetings held for show on Tuesday nights.  Instead, voting takes place in secret committee...so anyone know?  This is your government and how it does not work for you-by design!

Promoters will say this brings tourism--but any new aquarium to generate traffic needs cetaceans (dolphins, whales), AND to keep dolphins and whales as attractions takes significant money and space, not possible to provide in Jacobs proposal.  To even entertain the notion is animal cruelty--remember Free Willy, folks?--and animal rights activists will be make a national mockery of Cleveland, if we build this aquarium.  Sea World is gone...there are no captive performers to corral here.  Stop trying to make Cleveland something it is NOT.  We are not on a major ocean here.

What are our strengths?  OLD WORLD ecclesiastic art/architecture/cuisine/dance and NEW WORLD art/music/cuisine/dance--and more culture that defines US.  Please stop with the fish.

Fish Stories

Yellow perch

Brown trout


Common Carp

Chinook Salmon

Coho Salmon

Freshwater Drum

Lake Herring


Lake Sturgeon

Lake Trout

Lake White Fish

Longnose Sucker



Northern Pike

Rainbow Smelt

Rainbow Trout

Round Goby

Small Mouth Bass


White Sucker

White Perch

The public is always keen to see sharks.


Daily a diver hand feed thousands of magnifacant fish including larger sharks, rays and schools of smaller marine life.  A two-way communcaion mask allows spectators to converse with the diver durring the feeding demnonstration. 

The public is always keen to see sharks. 



143 different species of fish

The smallest of the Great Lakes by volume, Lake Erie is still the most productive and the most biologically diverse of the five. Some 143 different species of fish have been identified in its watershed. The annual catch of the commercial fishery in Lake Erie is greater than the catch in the other four Great Lakes combined, making it the most valuable freshwater fishery in the world.


Aquarium VOTE

 Brian Cummins is the sole "NO" vote.  Thanks, Brian--but, please dispense with the negative campaign tactics.

did not do his homework

According to the PeeDee article, Brian voted no because he needed to review the issue. Is that really a no? Does anyone believe that they really need a $2 million dollar loan?

Whoever wins

DWebb--whoever wins will be subjected to the same machinations of a council really controlled and managed to a large extent by the democratic and republican party politics at the Cuyahoga County and State level...

If and when, the FBI really cleans up that show then we will be left with no one, which is why I wish they would hurry up and especially get rid of the low level players like Martin Sweeney.  Oh, guess what--his girl Emily Lipovan is working the CDC show in Lake County! It's just a game--move the players around and we're the chips! 

The CDCs ARE shadow government, which is why we have no transparency by design! 

Henry Gomez says he is checking on the allotments budgeted by the current council folks with the current council boundaries.  It will, of course, be interesting to see how Joe Santiago's money is already spent.  So, stop worrying about Ward 14, DWebb--we're toast for whoever ends up with it.  Pay attention to your new ward allocations, although it has been annointed to be in the Detroit Shoreway CDC area, so you can breathe a little easier than the rest of us.  


it does matter

Thank you Laura (and for the links too), but it  does matter to me because ward 14 is my neighborhood and the redistricting is for wards, not neighborhoods. Remember that part? And my CDC remains OCNW which will get Santiago's allocation through July. It was seen to be ok to move the ward boundary of 14 a matter of feet to the south of me, and 15 moved north, but I am in the statistical area of OCNW. Insane

But does the boundaries all matter because after the census we will likely lose a couple more wards and all the boundaries get redrawn again, and we all get moved around without ever leaving our homes.  Fewer council reps spread over the larger area with districts drawn without regards to a neighborhood. The charter amendment that was passed requires the reduction of council as the population declines.  So gear yourself up for a repeat of all of this. 


strange lines

we are also subject to moving ward lines, Deb. It seems un-natural, it does not seem logical, its seems like gerrymandering for political purposes. but I'm told it is not.

Our CDC is also OCNW and we were just told they have eliminated safety issues from their work priorities and are focusing mainly on development. Not entirely surprising given the background of the new Executive Director, Nate Coffman. BTW, Nate assured us when he first came in that things like this would not be happening.

detroit shoreway CDC in Ward 14

 The Cummins plan is to bring the Detroit Shoreway CDC as the service provider to Ward 14 (a deal with Matt Zone). People haven't reacted well so maybe he will back off on that one, at least until the election is over. I don't think that this makes any sense in so many ways. 

Brian please respond

  DWebb  says that Detroit Shoreway CDC would broker services for Ward 14...personally--I don't have a problem with that scenario, because the CDC is one of the annointed CDCs in terms of NPI investment SII etc. and is overstaffed to the gills*, but how would that translate into equitable services for Clark Fulton and Brooklyn Centre and some accountability to residents?  We know how that DID NOT work for Brooklyn Centre under Old Brooklyn CDC...and that consequently you pulled their funding of code enforcer and transferred to Brooklyn Centre Community Association.

(PS--DWebb--we don't need more CDCs...we need less of them...I wish we could scrap the whole system and start over...but since it's not going to happen overnight...a rep has got to work with the system we have got...even if it is broken.)


*how many actually live in Cleveland?...OBDC director lives in Westlake...paid $80,000+

I live right here in

I live right here in Ward14.  I would love to have that $80,000 job.  How about you?

I disagree about fewer CDC's but I could be wrong.  I think a CDC needs to be in the area that is being serviced by the grant money that is coming into the area.  And the CDC's need to be held accountable for where the money is spent.  The whole idea for grant money is to service the area, not give certain hand picked people good paying jobs.  Now, like I said, I could be terribly wrong because I really don't have a good understanding of the whole CDC process and all the funding that comes into the area, but I do know that nothing much seems to have been done to make the Clark Fulton area any better.  Where did all the money go? 



living here

Some CDC's are going to dissolve. The writing is on the wall. The money just isn't there. I know that most CDC's can do more than they do: they can do weatherization programs, paint programs, board up vacant houses, graffiti abatement, organizing on safety and crime prevention, those things that mean so much to us. It is better that it be  neighborhood based CDC that residents can go to and work with. When you have drug dealers hanging on your corner, is someone from DSCDC or OBCDC going to really know how to deal with this, or for that matter, care, since they have their own neighborhood to work on?


 I hope that Cummins does respond. He has told a number of people that this is his plan. Either it is, or he has changed his mind, and if he has, he needs to then say what he does plan and why it changed.

I don't think that CDC's are as evil as you do, but I do think that they need a drastic overhaul, and they need to provide services to the neighborhood that they serve and get away from new construction and the entertainment industry. I think that employees of CDC's need to live in the City. I think that most CDC's are serving the interest of a few, and act as developers to the detriment of long time residents. There are a few good ones, and I would not fight hard (if at all)  for the other ones. Take this for whatever it is worth, Laura. I am not trying to bicker, just giving my thoughts.

Brian Cummins

  Please respond to question on allocation of your funding from July 2009 to June 2010.  Thanks!  Please also mark your calendars for this candidate's night:

The Brooklyn Centre Community Association (BCCA) invites you to join us at:
The 2009 Candidate’s Night
Thursday, October 22, 2009 • 6:00 - 8:00pm
Brooklyn Memorial United Methodist Church
2607 Archwood Avenue

This public event will provide elected officials or candidates for elected office the opportunity to present campaign platforms as well as respond to questions and concerns of area residents. Invitees include candidates for the Office of Cleveland Mayor, Cleveland City Council - Ward 14, and the Cuyahoga County Reform ballot initiative. The 2009 Candidate’s Night will be professionally moderated and is anticipated to draw several hundred residents. Please check back for additional event details or email the BCCA at bcca07 [at] yahoo [dot] com


 Why do we have to plea for this information of allocations from anyone, (not just Cummins)? It needs to be public at the beginning of each fiscal year. And when it changes, it needs to be published in a clear format.

THe Oct. 22d event has quite a packed agenda. Any idea who is showing up on the county reform issue?

Welcome to my world

  Not to be snide...but no joke.  Transparency...great concept...that's where CDCs come in...to obscure the money trail.


 It has been my world for a long time too, different mayor, different director, and on it goes.

transparancy? somebody needs

transparancy? somebody needs to come over to Tremont and teach a course in Transparancy to the crew at TWDC about transparancy.  They think that's a toy that comes in a cracker jack box. 

I was just given a copy of whar is supposed to be some "proposed changes" to the TWDC Charter. Chaanges that require a vote by the membership.  Of course, as you can well imagine, they should have been brought along with the by-law changes and discussed at the block clubs but they were going to keep them to themselves and just stick them in a packet to be mailed out to all.  Knowing full well that most people don't have a clue what they reading about and that it's too late to ask any questions or suggest any revisions. 

The person that gave the copy to me knew without a doubt that I would not keep it quiet and make it known, but the new charter changes clearly supports gentrification.  No provisions for the poor or the long -time residents - as a matter of fact, basically as far as they're concerned about us it says - throw the bums out.

This is our community organization.

Jerleen, this just makes me

Jerleen, this just makes me want to cry.  There has to be a way to stop this type of thing from happening in Tremont, in Detroit Shoreway, in all Cleveland neighborhoods.  One beef I have is when tax incentives are offered to people to buy new housing in these areas while the long time residents pay full taxes, or get the homestead deduction only.  How about some tax incentives to those long time residents that are paying taxes on thier homes?  I am sure you can think of many other ways to help the long time residents in the area and the poor in the area.  I live either in the Brooklyn Center area or the Clark Fulton area, depending on how one likes to look at the dividing lines between them.  Personally I think I am in the Clark Fulton area since I live North of I71 and that freeway tends to divide the neighborhoods.  But, tell me how can I help you with your cause.  Can those of us who stand with you on this issue write to someone to let them know that we support you?  Tell me who to write to and where to send it and I will do it.  Things like this have to stop.  It is so unjust. 

Until we can find a way to

Until we can find a way to stop the hand picking of the leaders inside the organizations, I don't know how we can stop it.  In Tremont West, the presidents of the Board have been Hand Picked for awhile.  If you've been watching the news, you see that Rosemarie Vinci's name has resurfaced in the corruption probe. 

Well, the FBI truck is getting closer and closer to TWDC.  Rosemarie was on the TWDC Board a few years ago and was board president 2006-2007, and then she hand picked Sammy Catania who in turn hand picked Tom Cook as board president. 

Last night at the ED/LRP meeting Tim Jenkins was blaming Coleen Gilson for TWDC being a lame duck prior to Sammy's daze.

If these new by-laws get passed we are all screwed - and that means the poverty level, low income, minorities, hispanics, Clark-metro, long-timers, etc., because the charter changes calls for TWDC to take control of all blighted areas and housing - it does not take much for a house to be called "blighted." 


it is fixed

Was that a realneo site problem or was the posting being edited as I read it? strange. 


Can you explain in regular people speak terms what these changes are? Is it the quorum, the membership or both? and what reason are they giving for these changes? 

Jerleen, we are losing your posting

Is this the tremont effect? (just kidding). I am sure that it will get fixed. 

vote and campaign

 for a councilperson who you KNOW will stand up to this....

you get ONE guess.

and it isn't Cummins

 who proudly list his support of the med mart fiasco as a good thing. Not to mention the millions of dollars and tax credits that puts housing for seniors on unstable grounds.

A new game...this ones borring me.


That’s why I want regionalism and districts, it pulls all the chairs out from under them.

Then it is a matter of budgets and then complete disclosure, that can be looked at in sections and by functions, but it has to show every line item online so we can analysis the heck out of it.

Then if it is demanded and acted out the results would or show up on the other side of the balance sheet, as we spent this then this subsequently increased.

It does not matter if most are not interested or may not even understand, what is the matter is that those of us that can and do understand are not allowed to see any of it.

If the building has $9,000,000.00 Million in added value then the taxes on the property have to go up. The added value is not in the PD is it? The return in tax is not, they are not always doing that as in favors or is it because they are just not thinking that way? The PD caters to the reading comprehension of what a fourth grader, isn’t most media doing that?

The budget of the operation is in part labor, thats also taxable, the operating revenue also taxable.

The costs of operating is decreased with the subsidization, if stretched out with little or no interest or in some cases completely forgiven….which is it because its all vague. It’s all just simplified to being $2 million dollars.

If a person doing public finance says it’s a winner than please provide those calculation for all to review. Then the actual realization over time checked…did it do what it was supposed to do?

That’s as in did the property and relative taxes appreciate? Did the operation file taxes correctly? What are the net gains on that parcel(s) over what it previously was….then there is always opportunity losses, that being could that money have done more elsewhere and then the same relative measures used…did it do what it was promised to do?

Even sales taxes should be assigned to a parcel, then registered within the actual district that they occur. Regionalism is not about sharing money it about sharing resources, it is about equal sized districts that have their own set of unique assets to work with.

A new game with all new rules and all new players….think fast the most adaptable and resourceful should be the winners not the most maniacal or worse in simply just part of the club!

Oengus, please explain, in

Oengus, please explain, in 4th grade reading level, exactly why you think Regionalism will help this area?  I don't see how it will help but I am willing to listen to your point of view but please break it down for me because I really don't understand it.  Thanks!

the use of metrics

The county is divided into township…has been, the townships are all relatively the same sizes in square miles.

Home rule allowed the separating of each of those townships and the subsequent fragmentation of townships into municipalities.

I believe that each of those individual townships could each have enough population and land to be its own economic engine.

The county could be a set of larger municipal type governments, each being defined within the boundaries of the original townships.

The county could form a council with a representative  from each township/district, but the county charter would be different. It could provide a common information’s system, the budgets of each township separated by what is derived within each township belonging to that township.

The outside (intergovernmental) funds would get allocated by the county council to address any obvious differences in budgets. Not to subsidize them but the rectify them, basically developing what is missing.

Having a common systems and common data defined by where it was derived, then also each functional spending also tracked….the costs compared and if different addressed and why and then what to do to resolve that.

It's about dividing the county up into sections, then tracking them all and using comparative analysis. The methods would be quantitative and use referential as well as interventional data. We know what a tax engine is and we also know what inefficiency and what corruption looks like.

Allocation of both federal and state dollars would come though the council of all districts.

It's not a model that I am aware of existing anywhere.

All of it is based an relational data and built on the parcel data set by augmenting that data with details. Who, What and Where.

The realigning of boundaries within a district would be the choice of that district, if the exiting municipalities wanted to combine raise or lower taxes they can or could. The use of common data sets would allow them to run alterative scenarios, to the extent of changing land uses within a district…seeking optimization and then looking across all region competitively, asking who does it better and why?

The county data would be the collection of all the data and show the ins and outs of all capital within districts. That down to each parcel of land, each being a winner or a loser. Asking does what is the activity on this parcel and does it produce or take resources, then it could also measure and track the wasting of resources, the use of metrics.



It’s written to the level of an MBA with a concentration in QBA. It relates to public finance and the use of quantitative methods. It’s about using and developing a modular system of relational data that run iterations to make determination and then building in algorithms as you go, it is about AI in some respects. The use of acronyms is not always a panacea of real knowledge it sometimes is in fact demonstrative of advanced intelligence. Some of us can do the iterations in our heads…I think I do them in my sleep.

I was her beard


When I signed up it was QBA and then it became OMS Operation Management and Statistic, now it is called OSM for Operations and Supply Chain Management. I had the options of two tracks that being data analysis the statistics track or production management the operations track. I completed both, then also a concentration in Urban Studies and Biology.

My education is so far beyond what they are requiring today for an OSM degree.

I spent about eight years working in IT…and my strengths are in processes, how we do it, what we do and why we are doing it. I have a real good understanding of how data is driving it all and how to make it do what it needs to do.

I finished with 400 level classes, those are graduate level courses it was fun to screw with the curves of the MBA students, they usually tossed me off the curve I typically was fifteen percent above the next highest score. But not always…because I sometimes was out the night before dancing on a box with my shirt off…I had a lipstick lesbian roommate in college, I was her beard and she took me everywhere.



QBA stands for Quantitative Business Analysis….using math.







I understood just a small

I understood just a small fraction of your reply...but thanks for trying to explain, it was fun to try to comprehend what you said. 

Maybe someday we can combine math and statistics and quantitative analysis and all that other numbers jumbling with the needs of real people, and real families, such as the one that Jerleen so eloquently discribed for us.  How can we put something like that together?  What would it take?

There such things as

There such things as ratcheting effect and then also points of diminishing returns. If they are calculating in legitimacy then disclose it! Not through the media through data sets and valued fields of measurement that can be downloaded into a spread sheet please.

Were is Jennifer Brunner? We need it all online and she actually assembled people that know how to do it.


Thanks to the commitment of

Thanks to the commitment of long-time stakeholders, the seeds of re-birth were planted. Now, brownfields sites are sprouting new housing with sales prices of $300,000

This was from the Detroit Shoreway page.  How many people in our area can afford to purchase a home for this amount?  This makes no sense.  How about some housing that would meet the needs of low income, minimum wage workers? 

And again, no grant money for the area between Clark and Denison?  And we have no CDC either.  So this area gets overlooked yet again in the middle of all kind of money being given out for redevelopment?  And this is okay?  We will be a little pool of poor surrounded by $300,000 homes?


Battery Park?


Battery Park…did not do well for them.

A nice idea went wrong, they are still in denial on that.

Just to be clear DS has introduced low cost housing though out its service are. They get access to grants and have restored many apartment buildings and rent them as low cost. They take vouchers. Which is not the same as affordable, the market price lost in it all.

The area is not the same today as yesterday, the home values that were inflated fell like a brick.

What was built in most of the CDC’s is of inferior design and construction, hate to say it but most all of it was.

What is insane is that if somebody builds a $300,000.00 home next to your $50.000.00 home that it appreciates to $100,000.00 with no real improvement to it.

If you introduce into it then that should be higher quality but look and feel like it has always been there. Pricing should be within a range, not shoot for the stars. In historic old neighborhoods it should be all about a slow process of upgrading and restoring. Buying up what comes on the market and then restoring it. Setting in outrageously high priced outliers skewed on the market is counter productive, its actually disruptive.

The realization of value should be to the owner…its not currenlty its to the developer. Those that bought into Battery Park are financially screwed. Why be paying as much as four times the market price in the area?

They seem to think adding in high end and subsidizing low income renters absolves them of the mistakes, in fact they are feeding a polarized class war. The goal is and should be a slow process of improvement. Simply a matter of buying old homes as they come up and then restoring them to the highest standards, not to make a buck but to breakeven, that defines the real market.

So that’s all about good people that get paid to do the actual work and not about people getting paid in profit on the deal. Those that manage it should be salaried and not profit driven, they should be quality and cost driven seeking the best for the least. The price of a home should be the cost of the home plus labor and material. There should be no abatements no special financing, just really well done homes priced at the actual cost of doing the work.  

Thanks for update on Battery Park... how about Avalon Station

Excellent overview, Oengus.

Have any of these "SII"-type $300K+ subsidy for the rich housing developments done well for anyone but the contractors, who all get lots of other government work besides these housing projects (and they are about as well designed, built and planned as typical "housing projects", at their best).

I've been observing what people are getting for around $400K+ around University Circle (around 1,500 sq. ft. of b-grade housing, a few blocks from my $35,000 house) vs. what we have gotten for far less, renovating a 3,000 sq ft Century Home 6 blocks from the Cleveland Orchestra.

We may not have the UCI cops across the street, but at least we have room for a nice garden, and children to play. We police our own. And we pay property taxes for that.

We need to change our REGIONAL approach to development.

The subsidized housing project for the rich that really blows my mind is Avalon Station, in the bloated burb of Shaker Heights, where my parents paid taxes so the city leaders (largely lawyer-types) could waste the money on poor work of a private developer for Avalon Station... a development that clearly should never have been built... makes us wonder what else have they done for the new "developers" of Shaker, who ain't no Vans.

Oengus - what's the SII situation in lofty Shaker these days? Lee and Van Aken looking worth all the tax-dollars at work? Chagrin and Warrensville saving the suburban economy?

Disrupt IT

Government work

  That's the line-up for now--subsidized housing projects, HUD projects, highway projects, and especially Cleveland Metropolitan School District buildings where the Plain Dealer provides NO OVERSIGHT and students are taken advantage of AGAIN....

Here's the latest scam...pay a private company with No Child Left Behind funds to tutor students for UP to 30 hrs (total) at CMSD schools under academic watch. 

Don't hire any new teachers, but contract this assistance work out to some company called http://www.knowledgecollegeinc.com .... and the kids LOSE...AGAIN. 

America sucks.


Oengus--I have no idea what you are talking about. 

But, hey let's forget the cesspool in Cuyahoga County.  Let's look at Lake County.  Where did Allega's contracts go after the they were thrown out of Cuyahoga County?  Hmmm....


Lake County....

We can all agree

 DWebb, Ward14resident...I am sure that NO ONE who does not live here and who does not share our concerns as residents--should be making $80,000+ at our expense. 

So now, that we are on the same side when it comes to how these CDCs have been operating with OUR money--how about some real accountability and some attempt to see REAL street-by-street results? 

What's it going to take Mayor Jackson and Department of Community Development??? 


 Can we agree that Jackson and the Department of Community Development aren't go to fix it? I think that you nailed it on the street by street results and the accountability.

Why not?

  Why not hold Frank Jackson and Community Development accountable?  The head of the Community Development Department is Mr. Daryl Rush.  He cuts the checks to CDCs...your money-- DWebb.  Stop letting the dollars slip away.


why not? Before the checks are cut, there is the joke of public hearings where we the people can go tell our representatives, the administration, and committee what we think the priorities are in the neighborhoods. They smile, they nod, and say they they had had public input. If you have any ideas....

I really do not like

I really do not like describing what is, I like what it should be and why much better.

They copied what the CDC’s do and failed as most of the very high priced project did. I call it contrived value…not real not sustainable.

In fact it’s a time line to a loss, the high price and eventual tax on that…wow what’s 3% of 300K?

You would have to be able to sell it to a thinner market than what would even qualify for it today. Which raises an interesting point, should the purchaser be qualified for taxes even though they are abated? The eventual tax on $300K is in fact $750.00 a month.

When the taxes have to be paid has the same affect as an interest only loan, when they come online you may not be able to afford them.

Building to the market and not attempting to raise the market with false value.

The area has a median household income of $45K I believe, but to the east that goes up sharply. Then again to the west it drops sharply.

If you wrote a computer program that would define an optimum price it might be 150K-200K, they over shot the market. They should have built to that market and without any subsidizations.

Then if they had enough sense they could lower the lease rates in the strip mall and fill that up as well.

It has underlying discrimination in it, they wanted to bring wealth in and got delusional because people with money are usually not that naive. 

profound precedence

The utilities should be required to use parcel numbers and that linked to the county parcel data.

Each parcel would have utility costs recorded and listed with the parcel data.

Each parcel would be inspected and then assigned estimated maintenance costs.

As the work is done then it would get registered, its taxable income of the contractor and also tax deductible to the owner.

The concept is that of PITIUM as a qualifier and generated automatically, the real value and the real cost of ownership. Principal Interest Taxes Insurance Utilities and Maintenance.

The goal would be lowering the deferred percentage of maintenance and overall cost of utilities.

If you drove by a home and liked what they did, you could pull up the parcel and see the costs of the work and also the contractor that did it.

The system the county auditor uses is outdated and not only that its corrupted.

I have been asking for legitimate access to that data, to be able to run queries thats about being able to request summaries, like the count of two family homes in a zip code. Then the average value? I can or could get more complex with that and run analysis of variances. Then I would be doing what the FBI is doing and finding people not paying what they should be paying.

Using data is best done with real good layers, sections and not to many of them as we have all these retarded jurisdictions that overlap all over. Alignment should be on parcels, then census blocks and zip codes, then districts as I keep proposing. Then summaries are relative ultimately to what is happening or exists at each parcel, then colections that are geographically continuous.  


If each parcel meets its needs and then has disposable capital then it has wealth! Common sense is that if you are outside of your limits in one location then it could be possible to actually be in another and have disposable income. That’s a metric its a statistic and something that should be tracked and strived for.


One county system that tracks and collects all the taxes and is primarily data driven. It would be information systems that all districts would utilize. That efficiency it would combine all the collective IT budgets of all the municipalities. It would have tables, that assign it all to the appropriate area. It’s not about sharing its about seeing it all collectively and proportionally.

Each district should be geographically defined not politically, representation is within and it not really related to what is functionally effective. That’s about public works and infrastructure. Districts based on that with centralized service centers within each.

Social services are nearly all intergovernmental funded, mostly federal funds. Appling those funds intelligently as to resolve rather than subsidize, making it all sustainable having a higher level of accountancy would bring the region to the forefront at the national level. It's not about looking at what others have done it about citing profound precedence.


Its about setting up the ideal system to do it, I believe that using technology and real data leads us in that direction. It's about process driven solutions, its about each of us seeing it clearly.

Solutions...I like that

Solutions...I like that word. 

My son's neighbor found a solution to his high gas bill (I think this is what he was doing).  The neighbor and a bunch of other guys were messing with the gas line outside, the one that goes into the house.  I hope it doesn't cause a gas explosion one day as this is rather dangerous work for amateurs.  I don't think these are the kinds of solutions that people need, but desperate times call for desperate measures.  If you can't afford your heating bill just rig your meter?  What's next?