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Censorship at REALNEOSubmitted by lmcshane on Sun, 11/22/2009 - 09:28.
A REALNEO member posted a viable solution to protest the injustice committed against one man who had his property stolen from him in Tremont. Why was this pulled from REALNEO?
If anyone out there wants to keep a property that has been intentionally cleared and devalued at taxpayer expense from going to sale through the lucrative tax lien market ($$$ money, money, money) or to get added to the Cuyahoga County Land Bank for future cash-in $$$-- Send whatever you can to protest and to help pay off the tax lien at: For parcel no. 004-10-027 Frank Giglio--to: Cuyahoga County Treasurer's Office, P.O. Box 94547, Cleveland OH 44101-4547
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Dbra did you delete?
If so--then, all is well and good. But, if someone else pulled the plug, I would like to know why?
i did
sorry - i didn't feel it was an appropriate place for a public trial - on idiocy.
i'm waiting for the RealNEO powers that be to grant a comment-less post privilege and I will post the info again.
Good point
Administrators?
The current profile settings do not allow...to my knowledge. Can we get a primer?
(People, this site is still, hands-down, the only place you can have the freedoms you do have here--thanks Norm :)
we need a local user technology committee
You can configure Drupal to allow complex configurations for postings by node and user privilege level, so it should not be a problem to allow basic members to post without comments, and to turn off comments themselves.
Jeff S - is this an easy config change?
We really need to make such configuration changes as part of an upgrade planning process, and at this stage we have enough long-time master users to provide lots of feedback on configuration.
I spoke with Jeff Buster the other day about upgrading our version of Drupal and we can make other basic configuration changes at the same time... we have some other technology questions to address at the same time - we'll be going real in other cities and regions around the world, in 2010.
It is also time to allow a pathway for basic members to become editors and administrators so more people can monitor for spam, etc. A higher level of access means a higher level of control over the site, which is dangerous as an admin may literally delete or edit any content and the site configuration, etc... (we do have a back-up process that allows us to restore back to a certain level - Jeff S would need to confirm how often we back-up what aspects of the site...
As we have other REAL sites, they will need their own admins, etc., so we will not have a centralized control model much longer... but need a good organizational model to accomplish all this.
So, not a simple answer but all doable and in the works - we need a local user technology committee to help specify what changes we want to make to the local site, and we need a global technology committee to help specify what changes we make to the global platform - I definitely want to be on both committees and suggest we meet asap.
Who else is interested?
Disrupt IT
Delete
It's a powerful option, too. It's like starting a fight and then walking away. But, sometimes we need to fight to understand our differences. It's also good to know that you can take offense with what someone may say, but still like that person. If I could, I would take the word "hate" out of our vocabulary. Teach tolerance. It's not easy.
its not starting a fight
and walking away, Laura.
Its taking responsibility for idiotic speculation, innuendo and slander to occur as a result of something I posted. Frank isn't on here to defend himself, nor should he have to be.
Apparently, those powers that be will stop at nothing to remove Frank from that property. I stated clearly I was going to repost the info without commentary. You are now allowing the same ridiculous slandering to continue by reposting this.
I requested assistance in posting without comment yesterday. I'm still waiting.
dbra - here are my thoughts on the admin question
I posted some comments to this thread - http://realneo.us/content/censorship-realneo#comment-18012 - and we can check with Jeff S for quick fixes. Drupal configuration is relatively easy, but many things are interrelated within the technology and changes to the overall site operation must be made with care...
Let's see what Jeff S suggests.
Disrupt IT
per-post comment settings
Email is a much better way to get in touch with me, as I don't read all of the posts and comments on this site. You can use the Contact link in the top-right horizontal menu.
The ability for [non-administrative] blog authors to administer comments on their posts is not a built-in functionality in Drupal that we can enable.
There is a Drupal module called User Comment that could help. It was originally created to allow the author of a post to edit, delete, and moderate comments on her/his post -- (no, that's not what we're looking for) -- but has been extended to offer the ability for users to set per-post settings for comments.
There are some caveats, though...Right now User Comment is only implemented for Drupal 6, (REALNEO runs Drupal 5.) Furthermore, the D6 releases posted are beta/development versions, and, from reading some of the module issues, are fairly buggy. Someone has rewritten User Comment to mitigate a number of these issues, but the module maintainer hasn't yet responded or incorporated the changes, and actually seems to be letting the module fall into neglect.
We could back-port (rewrite) the module to Drupal 5, but we're overdue for an upgrade to D6 anyway, so it seems to makes more sense to focus efforts there.
At any rate, an administrator can disable comments on any post. If it's just one post we're really concerned with, the solution is pretty simple.
All that said... this functionality seems to me, personally, to be contrary to the spirit, history, agenda, and strange beauty of REALNEO.
Okay
Point taken--but you know that is how the system wants to treat anyone who gets in the way of their agenda. We don't need a poster child--I agree. Slandering the victim is why we need to discuss this problem.
incapable
the most recent blog entry proved many are not capable of "discussion"
some call it talking out of your ass.... whatever = my point is - I don't want to be responsible for it, so I pulled the blog entry.
and I disagree - we DONT need to "discuss" the "problem". its been "discussed". I'm sure those trying to take his property would really like to "discuss" the problem so they can justify their greedy behavior and circumvent public out cry.
I think the previous blog entries discussed it enough.
discussed
pounded into the ground, circles, regurgitated, and made me regret that I ever posted the question to begin with. steep learning curve.
Censorship, whatever name
Censorship, whatever name you give it, is still censorship. I would like to see civility, but it really can't be mandated. It needs to be learned. Does anyone recall the burning of the books in the 1930's in Nazi Germany? Or the censorship of books in the United States such as Tom Sawyer? Cather in the Rye? What do we gain when we censor people's thoughts and ideas? Not everyone thinks the same. I find it educational to have privy to the thoughts of those that have differing opinions from my own. You have to know your enemy if you ever hope to win the war. If you shut up everyone that has a differing opinion you lose lots of information that is valuable to your cause.
I can understand not wanting slander but where will the line be drawn? I wouldn't want to make that decision. Maybe when someone resorts to calling someone Sowell's first wife? That was a low blow, a gut punch, unacceptable in civil society. I don't really know, this is a difficult decision to make if you want to keep an open forum.
i consider
"diagnosing" someone as "depressed" because they have long fingernails and a beard to be utterly ridiculous and deserving of my right to pull the plug.
i also consider people divulging information shared with them in private deserving of the same. this isn't the "who knows Frank best contest".
actually, this is disgusting. sorry.
censorship and civility mandates
We can't mandate civility. Everyone has buttons, and they get pushed. Then there are the idiots and purposeful disruptors. Even they can't be moderated. On the censorship issue, realeno is a blog. Not a book, or a newspaper, though years down the road it can be reviewed for historical perspective. Anyone can start a blog, and get a wide array of views. Perhaps you should start one, W14R, and have it be on civility and the question of responsible posting. Do it under your real name, then see how you feel about the whole thing. It is a real study in behaviors and that is certainly educational.
dwebb, I don't want to start
dwebb, I don't want to start a blog. I wanted to be a member of this forum. I stand behind what I write and I admit that I can be wrong at times. Does it really matter what my real name is? What difference would it make? I make an effort to be civil at all times. It can be difficult at times, when my buttons are pushed, but I sincerely try not to attack anyone even when I don't agree with what they have to say.
W14R
Dear W14R, you don't have to do anything, and it does not matter to ME if you use W14R or your real name (it may matter to others), and I am not accusing you of uncivil behavior. My point is that people act uncivil, and that people come on whose intent is to disrupt, and then there are those who are just not responsible, be it their way of life or by accident. What I was also saying is that would you like to post a blog that has your real name on it, and have this crap on it and have it be forever associated with you? Also, the intent and time time spent by people who create post only to have it trashed is wasted, and I find that cruel.
So this is not aimed at you. Re-read what I said, in this context.
dwebb, I don't understand
dwebb, I don't understand how something that someone else writes, even if it is in response to something you write, would be associated with you. Maybe I'm missing something? But, if that is the problem the delete button would be an effective way to solve it. I guess we should all have the right to censor our own posts. Maybe it would be best if we didn't respond by hitting reply, but started a new post to voice our thoughts and opinions.
I am sure the moderators of this site will decide how they want to mediate. I am not in charge of anything, I am only giving my opinion as a member of this forum. Personally, I liked the open forum.
and then there is the land of the "tards"
there's really nothing more to say - is there?
Where's the LOVE??
Joe Cimperman must be fuming.
All of a sudden Nina Turner is the "it" girl!
Life is so cruel and unfair!
Lmcshane is it the lmiller December 17, 2008 post?
Ok, Lmcshane, I went back over the home page posts and it looks like you are referring to the post which dbra put up which had the Cuyahoga County Treasurer's image of Franks property on W14 (without the amount of the tax due). I can see that that image is gone.
I would suggest that dbra took that post down by deleting it as dbra was the orignial author of the post.
Google may have a copy of the post in their cache.
Dbra, if you care to do so, maybe you could clear the air here. If you didn't take it down, I would be quite interested in hearing from you - (and there is always private email contact on realneo) thanks, jeffb
_It is probably not this old post you're talking about:_________________________
i already did
above...
could you please answer my email request for permission to post a blog entry without comments? I've emailed both you and Norm and no one has answered me.
thanks....
Could start a whole new
Could start a whole new trend? We could all post blog entrys without comments - that would really add a new dimension to NEO. Something to think about?
whats wrong with that?
I think there are times when eliminating the comment feature is a good thing. But apparently the powers at RealNEO don't want that, so i guess I'll just re-post the donation info and you guys can have at Frank again - please go ahead - speculate away at someone else's expense. Frank stopped by last night and we talked about this. He is one of the most understanding people I know. His response was "well some people just don't understand what it is like".
as I said earlier - some people just can't accept the limitations of someone else's privacy, Jerleen.
We are all
the powers at RealNEO. If you'd like a change in the comments policy (exceptions to the ability for folks to comment on posts), we could probably have a vote on it. Or we could vote on individual post's merit to disable commentary. I just think the community here should decide on our community policies.
thats what i'm trying to do, jenita
but the fact is, only a handful of people can disable comments and though they have frequently advised bloggers to do it in the past, I've been trying to have it done and they won't.
but honestly, at this point, i don't give a flying f@ck.
frank understands... if it happens again, it happens again. so be it.
Comment disabled at poster's request
We do need better processes for handling such things... and more admins/power users?
Anyone interested in advanced REALNEO training?
Disrupt IT
thank you
Norm!
my husband might make a good convert... let me know when you want to train someone - oH - and he's a really nICe guy - unlike his bitch of a wife....
a realneo disaster
I fully support individual posters requesting a read only blog from the administrators. I also like that we can delete a blog. I think that these privileges should end there. Becoming trained and given administrator privileges is not a substitute for policies that spell out the rights and responsibilities of members, nor is it a way to civil behavior. This will be a nightmare. Just think of what it could mean to either have the most outrageous posting, i.e. a racist, sexist, or the CDC that you hate, make statements that you can not comment on unless you start a blog, but their blog stand there, as it is, unadorned by rational comments. On the flip side, without policies, administrator privileges can, and probably will be abused at some point.
I do not have the time at this moment to devote to a discussion or debate of this subject, just ask that you think very carefully, and globally, before realneo heads in this direction.
gee, dbra
I think that standing one's ground and not suffering idiots in silence is not being a bitch. It is called being real.
i know
thats so retro isnt it???
I would really be
I would really be interested, could this be done after the holidays? Are you looking to put together a class of some type?
Seems to me if I wished to
Seems to me if I wished to go to a site that just had articles and no comments, no interaction, no working group to see how other's opinions are to see if indeed, someone could help or not, I wouldn't need to be here.
Shame even the thought of that proposed change. Betty
The problem is, America is NOT a Democracy - it is a Republic! As our Founding Fathers established, can we keep it?
its just one
post, dude... not the entire website.
this option was put out there by the RealNEO people long ago.
dbra, sorry, been on other non-realneo missions
I will catch up with this issue in a few days, I have been heads down on another project.
I haven't read any of my emails, but just my first thoughts on being able to post without comments:
Generating a civic conversation, from my perspective, is why I have dedicated much time, energy, and resource to Realneo. So to promote/create Drupal code for a broadcasting model which doesn't hear any echo isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Maybe the echo could be in the next post. Rather than comments under a post, every comment would become its own post on the home page. Whatever.
Speaking without hearing leaves much to be desired, it seems to me.
When a conversation is started, and the starter removes their original post, all the effort of everyone who responded to the original post is erradicated. Pretty heavy duty. Instead of totally removing original post, perhaps an edited version could be uploaded.
________________
On the tech side, I am not the person who knows if/how to turn off comments under a post. Perhaps this is doable with this Realneo version, perhaps not. JeffS - could a blogger on Realneo set the comments default to on or off?
I will now read the rest of this thread.
best, jeffb
that you , Jeff
you mean you have a life outside RealNEO? dAMn...
this has turned into the most utterly ridiculous trivial spectacle I have witnessed in a really long time. All I ever wanted was a blog entry without posts... they've been offered many times on the board, as solutions to commenting problems, so I really had no idea all histrionic hell was going to break out.
goodness gracious lord almighty
and nOw I'm l.miller???? wow.
I remember this post Jeff -
I remember this post Jeff - I know the two houses well and their condition at the present time.
Deletions and identity
Virtual interaction can be too much to deal with. The deletion I am refering to was the posting of the request to contribute to help Frank Giglio pay off his back liens (the liens that mysteriously change all the time).
A number of posts have been deleted, Jeff. Sorry. I didn't mean to start this trend. It's too bad, but it is a right of the original poster. And, the risk we take, when we comment. Now, if some people are assuming other names and multiple identities --that makes the interaction trickier. There is the issue of trust.
I don't believe that Dbra has assumed Lily Miller, but there is the possibility that I could be wrong. I have spoken with Lily on the phone, but I have never met her in person. I have met Dbra in person. I don't believe they are one and the same. I do believe that the compassion for Frank Giglio in the posts expressed is very REAL. Anyone's ulterior motives are not my issue here.
My issue, regardless of who I offend--is that there are a number of people with far greater tax liens on multiple properties, who are being allowed to operate in Brooklyn Centre, and probably, elsewhere for years.
And, I believe it is criminal and suspect that, this one man--especially given the City of Cleveland's wrongful history against him--is singled out and targeted for swift tax foreclosure.
Laura, speaking on tax bills
Laura, speaking on tax bills in general, you can go on the Cuyahoga County Auditor's WebSite, Click on Property Information, Type in either the Last name, property address, PP Number, and the Property info will come up, Click on the PP Number and and I am sure that you know several red tabs appear, one of which is Tax info, that will provide you with any and all taxes, including past present, payments, interest and penalties for the respective years.
If there are past due taxes, the numbers will change, periodically due to the interest and penalties. I do not want to put the info on NEO but you can look up the tax bill your self and it will give yu and indication if there is a possibility that anyone is being targeted for tax bills --- or if they have just been deliquent for too long.
This applies to EACH parcel of property. So if a person owns more than one parcel and has not paid taxes on either of them for two or three years, they are in trouble with the tax department. That has nothing to do with anything else.
bullshit jerleen
cimperman really has you in his pocket, doesnt he, jerleen?
funny how you turned so quickly....
Anyone that knows me, knows
Anyone that knows me, knows that I'm too big to fit into anybody's pocket. And there ain't no bullshit about that.
You all have a wonderful holiday!
On the topic of deleting posts
From now on I will just start a new comment and state in the subject what I am commenting about, that way if the originator of the topic decides to delete their post it won't also delete my post. Problem solved for me.
It might make a strange reading though to see holes in the discussion, but I can live with it if that is what is decided. I won't leave the forum if it is decided that deleting posts is to be accepted as an option.
Just my two cents on this subject for what its worth.
Ward 14, that makes perfect
Ward 14, that makes perfect sense. or you could just create your own blog.
Even with posting blogs without comments, that really opens up a new dimension - everyone could post whatever blog they wished - and no one could comment or... delete.
I happen to agree with your two cents.
We believe
What we want to believe. I believe that the system is so broken that everyone in the system is complicit.
Not benignly complicit--COMPLICIT--in the crime, if they do not speak out against it.
We hold these truths to be self-evident...